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A very simple solution to this

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by marlas1too, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. marlas1too

    marlas1too Monkey++

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  2. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey++

    I had to sign a dress code where I work. It said nothing about hijabs.
    However, I don't think it would get too far. The company is Jap owned, and has a heavy Jap presence. They generally dislike Muslims even though there are some who work there. The Muslim workers appear to assimilate.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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  3. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    Most DoD type companies (General Dynamics, Lockheed, and a thousand others) do make you sign a dress code plus many are now making one sign an 'At Will' agreement which basically means that they don't need a reason to fire you. Frankly, I agree with both of them. I have worked in places where an individual couldn't be fired but disturbed the workplace so badly that people didn't want to come to work or work with them or etc. Yet, they couldn't be let go.

    Frankly, I wouldn't want to work at a place that allowed them to wear a Burka for the obvious reason that she might have an AK under it and one wouldn't know. I would be okay with a Hijab as long as it wasn't extremely long and/or couldn't interfere with her work or a safety concern.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Forcing employees to sign a dress code as a back door way of restricting a reasonable accommodation of someone's observance of their religious beliefs is contrary to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 42 U.S.C. § 2000e, et seq., as amended . It would also probably be in contravention of the Constitution's 14th Amendment equal protection provisions. Could you imagine it if an employer enforced a dress code in the US that banned employees from wearing a

    upload_2016-8-8_0-37-7. upload_2016-8-8_0-48-19. upload_2016-8-8_0-49-57. or upload_2016-8-8_0-51-32.
    The Alliance Defending Freedom would be lodging a USC Title VII Civil Rights Act writ so fast that it would make the employer's head spin.

    Now, don't get me wrong...I have no sympathy for Muslims over Christians, or Jews, or Hindus or Pastafarians (I consider most of each religion's tenets and practices as absurd), but I also believe in the rule of law, and the principle of equal protection before the law. A dress code is not a shelter that employers and their subordinates can hide behind to protect them from being called to account for acting in an arbitrary and dickish manner.

    My advice to all employers is to know the laws of the jurisdictions that they are conducting their business in: and comply with them.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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  5. Joe13

    Joe13 Monkey

    WA & OR ar 'at will states' already. The employee doesn't 'need' to give notice to leave and the employer can terminate your employment for any reason they fabricate.

    Being on the border of the 2 states, that's just always been the way it has been done in my lifetime.

    I was once a manager for a small company. The owner flat out told me, if you need to fire anyone then go to the office window and wave for them to come in. As they walk towards you wave them on more until they start to run and then that way we can fire them for running in the building which was against policy (I'm guessing for insurance reasons).

    I never would have done that but it was an eye opener to a 20 year old kid.
  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    @chelloveck But, the difference is a cross is beneath one's dress, out of sight of the public, but if they wore it outside their clothes some other religions or atheists like yourself could consider it to be anything ranging from offensive to laughable. And, the dress codes have been in affect for years - YEARS. Furthermore, billion dollar companies, like for example General Dynamics, have the best legal minds in the business so if they couldn't do it then they wouldn't as most companies are very concerned about law suites. In the DoD community, we have to watch films yearly that depict what is appropriate attire. The operative word there is what THEY consider to be 'appropriate.' I specifically remember one film that showed a guy coming to work in what looked like a clown costume. The other thing is one isn't forced to sign the 'dress code' policy just as one isn't forced to sign the 'At Will' agreement and they say that it will not affect your chances for employment but in reality if you want the job then you will sign it because the company also has the right to depict themselves to the public as they wish, without religious overtones or wild artistic heavy-metal T-shirts or hats with flamboyant political statements or gangbanger jeans around the knees. Anyway, I am not disagreeing with you but telling you what I know to be a hard fact having lived it day-in and day-out for years. Also, if someone could have sued them, they would have done so...

    EDIT: Also, if you believe in the 'rule of law' then America is certainly one place you don't want to visit! LOL!
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I understand where you are coming from, and don't take issue with the lived experience of working in the corporate policy and legal environment that you have. Although I don't favour ostentatious displays of religious symbols and regalia as a means of religious territory marking, I do believe that a person's personal religious liberty to observe their religious customs shouldn't be unreasonably curtailed according to the arbitrary whim or prejudice of an employer or manager, if the employee's requirement can be reasonably accommodated.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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  8. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon West Coast Monkey

    It also in WA and OR eliminates whistle blowers as no one will even begin to question any illegal activity and therefore especially in the healthcare system in Oregon and Washington there is vast corruption. I know , I was supervisor and awhistle blower caught my employer stealing from the state, the client and insurance companies. Luckily I knew about the at will states options as I was once an employer. I had to be calculated and exact or I would have lost everything even then it was one hell of a f'd mess just to report it and then deal with being blackballed and then battle that. Employers at least in these two states can do what they want how they want.
    The same company I left has been sued by past employees many times yet the catch on fire them and the employee loos disgruntled. There is a 10million dollars law suit right now with a doctors suing this same facility. And he is having trouble with work as well.
    Joe13 likes this.
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