A warning to all gun owners

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Minuteman, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    <TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%; mso-cellspacing: 1.5pt" cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e0dfe3; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #e0dfe3; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #e0dfe3; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Fifty Caliber Institute Newsletter
    </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e0dfe3; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #e0dfe3; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #e0dfe3; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=bottom><DIV align=right><DIV align=right>Issue 2; Vol. I<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]
    The incident we talked about in July actually occurred in January of 2005. 'Joe Doakes' got a 'knock on the door' one day and his visitors were a team of agents from the Los Angeles County Gun Task Force. The task force is comprised of officers from at least the following three agencies: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE); Los Angeles County Sheriff's Dept (LASO) and Los Angeles Police Dept. (LAPD). There may be other agencies involved such as California Dept of Justice (DOJ) and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
    Without being able to go into specific detail on this subject, I want to emphasize to everyone the purpose here is just to make law abiding gun owners aware of the difficulties you can get involved in that can have very serious consequences on your entire life. We want to make you aware this is going on in Los Angeles County, CA and for all we know it is also going on around the entire state of California because of the Draconian gun laws they have passed in recent years. You as a law abiding gun owner are required to make yourself aware of existing gun laws and if you do not, you can easily run afoul of the law.
    Joe Doakes ran afoul of the law because he was storing a shotgun in his safe for a friend of his. When officers contacted 'Joe Doakes' they told him they were aware he was storing the shotgun and they were there to recover it. (Note: The other person in this incident had a substantial gun collection and was going through a very nasty divorce. This other person's wife had called the LA Gun Task Force and told them he had an unregistered "silencer" in his collection and he was subsequently arrested on charges related to the silencer. As soon as he was arrested the officers enlisted him as an undercover informant to work off the charges pending against him. He also had to relinquish possession of all of his firearms because he was now pending as a felon. One of the first things he did was tell officers about all of his firearms that friends of his were holding for him, hence the Task Force contacted 'Joe Doakes' to recover the shotgun he was storing in his safe.)
    When initially contacted, Joe Doakes was reluctant to allow officers into his home without a search warrant. They told him they just wanted the shotgun, "We don't want you", so they were allowed inside. As soon as he opened his safe to get the shotgun the officers observed a Springfield Armory M1A with a flash hider on it in his safe and they stopped everything. They told him they were going to go get a search warrant for his home based on their observations. They returned several hours later with a search warrant and were there for over 8 hours searching his house.
    One of the items officers found was an unopened box of (200) .50 BMG tracer projectiles that had been delivered from out of state. "Joe Doakes" knew possession of tracer ammunition was illegal in California, but didn't realize possession of just the projectiles was illegal.
    Did you realize possession of illegal firearms or destructive devices (projectiles) near a major thoroughfare was against the law in California? Sure is!! Another felony. "Joe" just happens to live near a major street in LA.
    "Joe" was arrested and booked. He was able to get out of jail on bail but as soon as he did the 'Gun Task Force' started trying to convert him to a confidential informant. The deal was, he would provide information on other friends of his who were gun owners so the 'task force' could knock on their doors. After so many (they didn't say how many) people were arrested, they would drop charges on "Joe". Well almost. All 'Joe' had to do was plead guilty to one "wobbler felony", give up his gun collection (can't own guns as a felon you know) and give up his contractors license (can't be a contractor as an ex-felon you know) and give up all his friends who own guns.
    "Joe" is a highly decorated Vietnam Veteran and is a recipient of the Purple Heart Award. He has never been arrested in his life and he works every day to pay his bills and pay his taxes. "Joe" is the consummate 'Law Abiding Citizen' trying to do what is right and conduct his life according to a set of standards and guidelines he was taught. However, "Joe" has been caught up in the feeding frenzy of the anti-gunners in California and has been declared "Persona Non Grata" only because he is a firearms owner. He is a statistic that supports the continued federal & county funding of "Gun Task Forces" throughout the United States. He is the justification the city council of the city of Los Angeles threw into mine and Ronnie Barrett's face the day several years ago when we addressed the council regarding their 50 caliber ban in the county and city of Los Angeles. "Joe" is a statistic that Sheriff Baca used to portray the "Danger to the General Public" when he was lobbying to ban firearms in their city and county.
    If you live in California (or one of several other states like them), please be careful. We are all law abiding gun owners, but we are living in dangerous times for your personal freedoms. Try to be as cognizant as possible about legislation they are passing almost daily that can affect your rights. It's very easy to make a mistake and end up in the same boat as "Joe Doakes". We don't know what's going to happen here, but we will try to keep you advised.
    There is a great book out there that might help many of us. I have one and I buy updates regularly. The book is written by my good friend Alan Korwin in Phoenix, AZ. The book is Gun Laws of America and you can get it by calling (800) 707-4020 or going onto the Internet at www.gunlaws.com. A good investment if you have questions about the gun laws in your state.

    We may have one a few battles lately, but this should serve as a warning that the war is far from over. we cannot afford to let our gaurds down. The JBT's are still out there and still up to thier same old tricks. MM
  2. ricdoug

    ricdoug Monkey+++

    Kalifornia has a few bad cookies...

    I live her, near San Diego. Ric
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    My Thompson Auto-Ordanance .45 Pitbull was in a shop in Palatka, Florida being repaired. I called today because I haven't heard back from them in a few months only to find out that the shop owner was busted by the ATF for not dotting an i or crossing a t on his paper work and if I hold any hope of locating my pistol, must call the BATF agent that confiscated the shop's guns. That is all I need, especially since I now live in Alabama.:mad:
  4. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I hate to hear that SC. If you ever do get your pistol back it will probably be after endless red tape and stalling.

    I have only had one personal dealings with an F Trooper and and I can tell you that they must go through training on how to get around pesky little problems like The Bill Of Rights and the Second Amendment.

    This guy I dealt with kept wanting to come out to my house. I told him I would meet him anywhere he wanted, but he had no need to come to my house. He then called my wife when I was out of town and wanted to come out and just "Look" at the firearm in question. My wife knew better and told him she had no access to my gun safe and he would have to talk to me. After a few weeks of this crap he finally agreed to meet me at a local gun shop.

    Never,never, let these types in your house without a warrant, period. I had absolutely nothing to hide, but my home and my possesions, including my gun collection are nobodys business.The one firearm that he had a legitamate right to question me about I willingly supplied to him, but, in a public place and not in my home.

    Anyone who would let a Federal agent into thier home and or gun safe is letting the wolf into the chicken house. Keep all your possesions on a need to know basis, if they have no need, then they don't need to know.
    It seems like the guy in the above article opened the door and let the wolf in. Bad mistake.

    And it seems to me like we keep hearing more of these type of stories.One bit of advice that the gunsmith at my local gun shop gave me. He said to never bring in the entire weapon if possible. Meaning if you need work done on the trigger then strip the weapon down and only bring in the trigger group. Or just the barrel etc. Seems like pretty good advice to me. For one thing you don't have to record the serial # and do all the paper work if it is only a "Gun Part".
  5. ricdoug

    ricdoug Monkey+++

    I "Smith" all my own hardware. Don't trust anyone else with my iron. Us "reloaders" may have the only game in the near future. Stock up now. Ric
  6. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Excellent advice. Thanks for sharing your story, like in everything else there are a lot of good and bad people in Gov.
  7. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    I'd agree with MMan....."Joe's" mistake was EVER letting the police in the door.

    I would have told them to remain OUTSIDE, OFF MY PROPERTY, and I will bring the shotgun out to you. What kind of knucklehead allows them inside ???
  8. poacher

    poacher Monkey+++ Founding Member

    He was probably thinking that he didn't want problems and so the "decent" thing to do was to let them in. Sorry for him. On the flip side I'm not sure I would have brought the weapon out to them either. Think about that one for a min. You are bringing a weapon outside to them it's in your hands.... just not a good move. Honestly I think it was more like a catch 22.
    I would be highly pissed about my supposed friend giving me up to save his ass. Think about this one, Joe more than likely got offered the same deal his "friend" did. So that means his friend gave him up so he could plead down. Screw him!! Just another reason why I don't let people store things at my house. I'll help em clean em, grease em and bury them on some rural property I have. But they don't store em at my place.
    Hey I'll take ya to where moron buried his shotgun you bring the shovel but you and your people don't come into my house. I also like the idea of bringing just what you have to to get fixed.
    Take care Be safe Poacher.
  9. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Bringing it out wouldnt really be a problem, just make sure it is cased, obviously disassembled (like the barrel removed if easy like on many shotguns) and carried by the barrel or some combination there of. I would have to say that it might also be a question of how they 'asked'. Did 1 plain clothed officer knock on the door and let him know they would like to take a look at it or were there 30 officers behind him with full auto weapons pointed at him when he opened the door with a spoksmen letting him know there would be no trouble for him if he let them come in and get it? There are after all different ways in which it might be asked and could understand the idea that trying to sort it out in court might be better than pissing off a couple dozen guys in armor with rifles pointed at you.
  10. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    And it continues...

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" background=http://attach.re2.mail.yahoo.com/us.f508.mail.yahoo.com/ym/us/ShowLetter?box=Inbox&MsgId=6494_4011946_543_1435_24908_0_19904_34891_704028512&bodyPart=2&YY=34342&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&Idx=8 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE width="95%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD>Email Alert

    LA Gun Task Force Serves another Search Warrant

    The LA County Gun Task Force has served another search warrant on the home of another member of the fifty caliber community. On Monday September 18th, eighteen police cars swarmed the neighborhood where the FCSA member lives and served a search warrant signed by Judge Steven Kleifield of the LA County Superior Court. The officers were at the residence for several hours and confiscated all semi-automatic firearms belonging to the victim.
    The probable cause for issuing the search warrant was not available in the body of the affidavit so the reason for the search is unknown at this time. It should be noted the LA Gun Task Force used "High Risk" entry tactics by sending a SWAT Entry team to make the initial entry into the victim's residence. Gun owners in LA County need to be prepared to expect these kinds of entry tactics and respond to commands from any officers if you are contacted.
    FCI wants everyone to be aware that the LA County Gun Task Force is lead by agents from BATFE; LAPD and LASO. They appear to have focused their attention on members of the fifty caliber community and are aggressively trying to arrest law abiding citizens for just being "Gun Owners".
    In the situation that occurred this past Monday the victim had his entire firearms collection seized and he was told charges are going to be filed because he had in his possession linked ammunition in quantities of more than 10 rounds of ammunition at a time. This has been interpreted as a violation of the "High Capacity Magazine" portion of the Assault Weapons Act in CA. The victim owns a Semi-auto M2; a semi-auto M3 and a 30 caliber semi-auto 1919
    Everyone living in California needs to pay attention to what is happening in Los Angeles. This can happen to you simply because someone who knows about your firearms calls the LA Gun Task Force and gives them information they interpret as a violation of the Draconian Gun Laws they have been passing for the last five years.
    We are asking everyone to review what you have in your gun safe or workshop. Take the time to find out what is against the law and what is not. Remember, our first reported incident was over a flash hider on an M-1A and some armor piercing projectiles. Don't let this happen to YOU.
    We are not able to identify the person involved in the incident on Monday or give you any more info about the circumstances about what occurred at this time. We will advise and update as we can.

    John Burtt, Chmn

  11. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I have gotten more of these alerts in the last month than I have in the last year. I don't know what is behind the recent increase in these reports. I haven't seen this level of harassment since the 90's.
    It seems to be mostly in Kalifornia, but seems to be spreading now to neighboring states. That's the scary part. What happens in Kali usually foreshadows whats coming in the rest of the country. We need to keep an eye on this situation.MM

    <TABLE width="95%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top></TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle>October 11, 2006
    Fifty Caliber Institute
    Email Alert Gun show 'Stings' Continue In
    California and Neighboring States

    FCI has been made aware that federal, state and local law enforcement officers are continuing stepped up efforts to enforce firearms laws, particularly at gun shows in California and bordering states. The California Department of Justice Firearms Division, county and local law enforcement officials (particularly LAPD Gun Unit) and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) all attend gun shows throughout California and neighboring states. There are uniformed officers present, as well as civilian informants and undercover plain clothes officers whose job is to conduct 'stings 'typically by enticing gun buyers or sellers to forego the legal requirements that gun sales be processed through a licensed gun dealer. Often guns are offered at "too good to believe" prices in order to entice the offer.
    Police are monitoring Shotgun News, Gun List and other trade magazines for sales of firearms and even run ads themselves to sting unwitting participants. State police will follow cars with California plates back from the gun shows across state lines and arrest the occupants for importing "assault weapons" or "high capacity" magazines.
    FCI wants to make everyone aware of these circumstances to ensure our readers are not engaging in the activities described so as to put themselves in a position of being arrested and having your entire firearms collection confiscated. As all of you are aware, two members of the Fifty Caliber Shooters Assn. have had search warrants served on their residences and charges filed against them. Other gun rights organizations reading this information need to pass it on to their own members.
    Law Enforcement officials in California are taking very seriously any violations of the laws they have been passing for these many years restricting your lawful right to own firearms. They have joined forces and pooled their resources to aggressively target gun owners. We are here to make you aware of it and to encourage everyone to again BECOME FAMILIAR WITH YOUR LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES AS GUN OWNERS and not become involved in any transaction that might lead to your arrest.
    Attached to this Email Alert is a .pdf document from www.calgunlaws.com This document is directed at Gun Show regulators and is aimed at making them aware of the current situation. Please open the document and become familiar with it.
    FCI would also like to remind everyone that if you are not familiar with the restrictions of the California Assault Weapons Ban, you can find the entire document on our web site at www.fiftycal.org We will keep you advised as we become aware of more information. John Burtt, Chmn

    </TD></TR><TR><TD class=footer><CENTER></CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  12. Valkman

    Valkman Knifemaker Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I don't see how it could "spread to other states" seeing as we don't ban the same things and the rest of us left the AWB behind 2 years ago. I can have 10 .50's and no one would care because they're legal! OMG, we have full-auto weapons and no one cares! AR-15's!

    The people in CA would like us to believe that so we fight for them but CA is a lost cause and one I'm glad I don't live in anymore.
  13. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Have been hearing of similar stuff in Chicogo as well.
  14. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    " Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) all attend gun shows throughout California and neighboring states. There are uniformed officers present, as well as civilian informants and undercover plain clothes officers whose job is to conduct 'stings 'typically by enticing gun buyers or sellers to forego the legal requirements that gun sales be processed through a licensed gun dealer. Often guns are offered at "too good to believe" prices in order to entice the offer.
    Police are monitoring Shotgun News, Gun List and other trade magazines for sales of firearms and even run ads themselves to sting unwitting participants."

    This is what I see as the scary part. I agree that Kali is a lost cause, but it is these kind of entrapment procedures that I worry about. These type of underhanded "stings" were common several years ago, but haven't been happening for some time. Until now.
    And that effects all of us, not just our brothers in occupied territory.

    I used to work the gun show circuit and have seen first hand the "undercover" agents that would set up some unsuspecting guy. They would watch him buy a gun and then catch him outside and offer him several hundred dollars more than he had just paid for it. When the guy accepted they busted him for being an unliscensed"gun dealer".

    Another common practice was to examine dealers selling parts, and when they're back was turned, slip a full auto sear into thier parts bin. Then bust them. Have you noticed that at the shows now all the vendors selling parts keep them in a case not accessible to the public walking by?Also getting some vendor to talking about the mechanics of converting a semi to full auto.

    This happened all over the country. One entrapment bust happened in about 98, 99 or so at the Claude Hall show in Henderson. Your back yard VM..

    So yeah, I kinda of share the sentiment about the Kali folks reaping the fruits of thier apathy when blatently unconstitutional laws like AB-50 were being passed in thier state. But, I see this as not just a Kali issue.I fear that this could be only the tip of the iceberg. And the rest of us around the country are all aboard the same boat.
    Let's home her name isn't "Titanic".
  15. Valkman

    Valkman Knifemaker Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yea, I didn't comment on the gun show stuff because I became so disgusted with them I quit going. I have no doubt some of that stuff goes on, and I've also seen crooked dealers who probably brought that stuff to the gun shows. Blatantly setting people up is right down ATF's alley - ask Randy Weaver about that one.
  16. duanet

    duanet Monkey+++

    I don't know about the rest of you, but when I buy a new gun and they file the required forms, they get the necessary approval back from the feds in about 10 seconds. Someone has a "very" good data base and it still only took 10 seconds when I hadn't bought a gun for 3 years so it is up to date and goes back a ways. Thats what frightens me about the California or Canada or Australia or ****** type thing. Most of the world no longer has the right to own many of the more common weapons and it sure looks like a data base is being created to make it easier if we do change the laws throughout the USA. What a choice crooked egomanics or gun hating liberals for our government. I think that the real shtf in guns will be once they outlaw private sales and gun shows. Then we will all have to learn how to kneel to the man when ges by.
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