A Worthless Piece Of Paper?

Discussion in 'Bill of Rights' started by Yard Dart, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    "During his presidency, Congress enacted the Patriot Act. This legislation permits federal agents to write their own search warrants when those warrants are served on custodians of records -- like doctors, lawyers, telecoms, computer servers, banks and even the Post Office.

    Such purported statutory authority directly violates the Fourth Amendment to the U.S.

    Constitution, which guarantees the right to privacy in our “persons, houses, papers and effects.” That includes just about everything held by the custodians of our records. Privacy is not only a constitutional right protected by the document; it is also a natural right. We possess the right to privacy by virtue of our humanity. Our rights come from within us -- whether you believe we are the highest progression of biological forces or the intended creations of an Almighty God -- they do not come from the government.

    If the terms and meaning of the Constitution could be changed by the secret whims of those in the executive branch into whose hands they have been reposed for safekeeping, of what value are they?
    This is not an academic argument. If our rights come from within us, the government cannot take them away, whether by executive fiat, popular legislation or judicial ruling, unless we individually have waived them. If our rights come from the government, then they are not rights, but permission slips.

    The terms of the Patriot Act were made public, and those of us who follow the government’s misdeeds could report on them. After all, this is America. We are a democracy. The government is supposed to work for us.

    We have the right to know what it is doing in our names as it is doing it, and we have the right to reveal what the government does. Yet, under this law, the feds punished many efforts at revelation. That’s because the Patriot Act prohibits those who receive these agent-written search warrants from telling anyone about them. This violates our constitutionally protected and natural right to free speech. All of this has been publicly known since 2001.

    Then, in June 2013, Edward Snowden, the uber-courageous former CIA and NSA official, dropped a still smoldering bombshell of truth upon us when he revealed that the Bush administration had dispatched the NSA to spy on all Americans all the time and the Obama administration had attempted to make the spying appear legal by asking judges to authorize it.

    Snowden went on to reveal that the NSA, pursuant to President Obama’s orders and the authorization of these judges meeting in secret (so secret that the judges themselves are not permitted to keep records of their own rulings), was actually capturing and storing the content of all emails, text messages, telephone calls, utility and credit card bills, and bank statements of everyone in America. They did this without a search warrant based on probable cause -- a very high level of individualized suspicion -- as required by the Constitution.

    Snowden revealed that Obama’s lawyers had persuaded these secret judges, without any opposition from lawyers representing the victims of this surveillance, that somehow Congress had authorized this and somehow it was constitutional and somehow it was not un-American to spy on all of us all the time. These judges actually did the unthinkable: They issued what are known as general warrants. General warrants were used against the colonists by the British and are expressly prohibited by the Fourth Amendment. They permit the bearer to search wherever he wishes and seize whatever he finds. That’s what the NSA does to all of us today.

    Last week, we learned how deep the disrespect for the Constitution runs in the government and how tortured is the logic that underlies it. In a little-noted speech at Washington and Lee Law School, Gen. Michael Hayden, the former director of both the CIA and the NSA, told us. In a remarkable public confession, he revealed that somehow he received from some source he did not name the authority to reinterpret the Fourth Amendment’s protection of privacy so as to obliterate it. He argued that the line between privacy and unbridled government surveillance is a flexible and movable one, and that he -- as the head of the NSA -- could move it.

    This is an astounding audacity by a former high-ranking government official who swore numerous times to uphold the Constitution. He has claimed powers for himself that are nowhere in the Constitution or federal statues, powers that no president or Congress has claimed, powers that no Supreme Court decision has articulated, powers that are antithetical to the plain meaning and supremacy of the Constitution, powers that any non-secret judge anywhere would deny him.

    If the terms and meaning of the Constitution could be changed by the secret whims of those in the executive branch into whose hands they have been reposed for safekeeping, of what value are they? No value. In such a world, our Constitution has become a worthless piece of paper."

    Is our Constitution just a worthless piece of paper? | Fox News

    Welcome to tyranny....
    3M-TA3, HK_User, pearlselby and 4 others like this.
  2. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    3M-TA3, HK_User, Mountainman and 5 others like this.
  3. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    I wish I could say here how I truly feel about this topic but these will give you an idea.. Support Liberty. Molon Labe.

    Our Forefathers Would Be Shooting By Now.
  4. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Part of the problem is that the only resistance seems to be bumper stickers and t-shirts. We reduce our passion to a slogan and someone makes a 1500% profit on a piece of paper or a $2.00 t-shirt. oh, and someone else feeds their family on the GS 3 salary they get from our Big Brother for monitoring the hall and keeping the "lists" populated with names of those that buy them.
    Tully Mars, Yard Dart and NotSoSneaky like this.
  5. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    It is time to to break out the tar, feathers, and pitch forks. Our government sees us ( the citizens) as the enemy. The founding fathers saw the government as the enemy. One of them is wrong. I wonder which one
  6. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    well, it was tried once, you may recall. Didn't turn out too well. They "preserved" the s#!t out of the "union". Then they took away the representation of the states to make sure it couldn't happen again.
    I'm sorry, I'm with you, but it simply not going to happen. Not to say we can not, but we WILL not do what it would take. The few who get worked up enough to try will be Ruby Ridged.
  7. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    Brother i realize that. The only way this is going to change is to change the mindset of a certain segment of the population. I believe in the power of the ballot. Randy weaver sold an illegal gun , he was an idiot. He is as responsible for the death of his wife and son as the FBI is. Ruby ridge was a classic case of the clash of two as#h#les.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
    tulianr likes this.
  8. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The shotgun that Randy Weaver sold had a legal barrel length but the over-all length of the shotgun was 1/8" too short...a recoil pad would have made it legal.
  9. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Randy Weaver--responsible for the death of his son/wife. How do you figure that. Cutting a shotgun barrel(X2) is not a death sentence. His son was killed the first day and his wife the second as she held a door open with babe in arms. Co-responsible, I think not.
  10. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    The season 3 episode of Criminal Minds, 'Identity' features a militia group and mentions Ruby Ridge(and Waco). It is actually the least prejudiced version of militia that I've seen come out of Hollywood. They were pretty much just ordinary people who believed in their rights according to the Constitution, and really didn't like the current government. The militia weren't the bad guys in the episode, the main bad guy(he had a sidekick) was kicked out of the militia because he was such a freak.
  11. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    Ruby ridge didn't generate the results and press coverage that .gov wanted. That's why Waco happened. Both Randy and David could have been arrested on those trumped up petty charges at any other time without widely publicized results but that wouldn't have generated nearly as much fear of non compliance by the peasants that they wanted.
    Dunerunner, fmhuff, Brokor and 3 others like this.
  12. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    You do not fight the police. I will say it again you do not fight the police. His son pointed a gun at an fbi agent, do that and you are asking to be shot. He indoctrinated his family and they paid the price with their lives. He even said he acted stupidly . As for the eighth on an inch, well he should have waited for his day in court. If someone wants to go play army them they should join the military. Randy is at least half responsible. No one has the right to get into a gun fight with the police. You go to court. People scream about constitutional violations, then why dont they use it. They wave the flag and say they support the troops but will not stand behind the police who protect them on a daily basis. Is there gross over reachs by our government yes. But that does not give us the right to take a life of a government agent. Any organization that is planning and training to fight the government is unamerican and deserves what they get. I know good people that are out ptotecting us every day, not all police are bad. Is the federal government corrupt, yes but we have been given tools to protect ourselves and we need to use them. I will say it again randy weaver was and acted like a fool and his family paid the price. People like weaver give the government the excuse to act and put their thumb down on us harder.
    mysterymet and tulianr like this.
  13. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    Soon someone will bell the cat.
    oldawg, Tully Mars and Yard Dart like this.
  14. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    tedrow42, Tully Mars, oldawg and 5 others like this.
  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Randy Weaver was set up by the FBI, his family were murdered. To say otherwise would be to ignore the facts -facts, I might add that have been covered up at every angle by the Feds who got away with it. And the very same thing happened to the church in Waco and all those children who burned because of political and police state propaganda.

    As for the "police", they are NOT needed. They are NOT necessary, not one bit. We existed as a nation for quite a few generations without them. During and subsequent to the days of prohibition and the creation/proliferation of mafia (CIA) crime, the "need" was too great to ignore a standing army any longer -and that is all police are -a standing army on our own soil. The "police" today are heavily recruited from the military, and have become militarized. To deny this is ridiculous. To claim they only save lives and rescue people would be outright lie. WE SHOULD ONLY HAVE OFFICERS OF THE LAW, whom we ELECT to serve and protect (SHERIFF'S) and we do NOT need local, state and federal POLICE who are really agents of the state sent to criminalize decent people and collect money for their corporation.

    WAKE UP. You live in a police state, with more prison inmates than any other nation on the earth. Prisons are BIG business in the U.S.A. and they are only getting bigger.
    Byte, Dunerunner, HK_User and 7 others like this.
  16. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    Randy weaver was set up by the FBI, i agree, but what happened after was all on weaver. Weaver did everything wrong. For a family that did everything right look to the Reese family from Deming NM. Was the reese outcome perfect, no but they are alive and not in federal prision, and have the ability to appeal the verdict. Waco dont tell me about waco. Koresh has the blood of innocents on his hands ( as does the atf, fbi, and the local sheriff) . That coward hid behind women and children. He wanted that fight and had been prepping for it. I hope he is rotting in hell. I know about the police state but i am calling it as i see it. Both weaver and koresh pulled the tail of the bull and got horns, unfortunately so did their family and followers.
    NotSoSneaky and tulianr like this.
  17. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator


    A quick refresher may be in order ;)

    Second Amendment - U.S. Constitution - FindLaw

    @vonslob you may call those that stand at the ready to defend liberty, UN-American...... I call them a Patriot. Many of us have sworn to defend this nation from all enemies, foreign and domestic..... that oath is never over!!

  18. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    What did weaver and koresh do to further the cause of liberty? Nothing. Look to the reese's they took it on the chin for liberty. We have a constitution shredding president because we collectively have done nothing. We get the goverment we deserve.

    I have been telling people for years that this left right crap that we are so quick to believe is to keep us divided. As long as we continue this democract republican bs then nothing will get done. I see a direct correlation between the increasing divide between us as citizens and the increasing police state power. I do not see weaver or koresh as heros but as fools
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
    tulianr likes this.
  19. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    vonslob, you are entitled to your opinion but most the rest of us tend to see just the opposite and many of us are just ignoring you as a troll.
  20. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    Right on if you see me as a troll so be it. Sea sounds like you are trying to silence my opinion because you do not agree with it. So i will drop it out of concern of being seen as a troll.

    Edit sea explain to me what part of my postings is trolling feel free to pm me with your explaination. Better yet report me to the mods. Keeping someone from expressing themselves is about as unamerican as you can get. If the majority of monkeys see me as a troll then i will gladly give up my monkey membership
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
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