A Worthless Piece Of Paper?

Discussion in 'Bill of Rights' started by Yard Dart, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    That is what I am saying. Weaver acted stupidly and Koresh wanted it to happen
    tulianr likes this.
  2. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Oh , I see you said Koresh hid behind women and Children. I thought you said weaver did. My bad but you have a way of riling my rage level. Koresh hid his women and children in an underground bunker. I don't know how this qualifies as hiding behind them. But No one knows why they stayed by his side or if they were forced to stay. Ill never forget that tank backing out with that nozzle dripping burning liquid. I still believe that was flame thrower not a tear gas injector like they said. I am not quite as defensive about Koresh as I am about the Weaver family. They (the government) tried to force Weaver to be a mole against the White Aryan Nation group and that would have got him killed. He was pushed , entrapped and all done illegally. Right from the beginning the feds were out of line. He thought it was the end and the next time this kind of crap happens it might be the end. The feds have no Idea how close they came to having hundreds of Militia on site at Ruby ridge. There were people on the way but it was over before they got there. All in all the feds backed off the Bundy deal because this time the help arrived in time. Also the truth about Harry Reid came out and he dialed that one down fast. Ill stand with Weaver any time. Tyranny can kiss my ass.
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    ATF acted stupidly from the "GetGo" with Koresh.... They could have arrested him in town, on any number of occasions, while Grocery Shopping, for the Mess hall at the compound. The US Marshals exceeded their Court Warrant in the Weaver matter, by leaps and bounds, got caught, and were denounced by the Federal Judge, when the FACTS were presented in Court. Both Cases were clearly Unconstitutional Operations, that could have been resolved with NO Loss of life, except for the Bully Tactics of the Federal Government. In WACO the Feds, had their Brand Spank'en NEW ATF SWAT Team that they wanted to showcase, and went up against a KNOWN, Well Armed, Target, with almost NO Intel on the Target. They got their A$$ handed to them, in the firefight, and were relieved by the FBI, when they were FORCED to retreat. At Ruby Ridge, what was ONLY to be covert Surveillance, by US Marshals, got their covert Mission BLOWN, by the Family DOG, but rather than end the Mission, they chose to Kill the Dog, with Gunfire, which was NOT allowed by the Warrant. They then shot and Killed the Son, and wounded the Friend, when they went to check on the GunFire, and found the Dead Dog. In that firefight a US Marshal was Killed. The conflict escalated from there, until the FBI was called in, because things had gotten "COMPLETELY out of Hand". On ANY such Mission, it is the JOB of the Senior Agent, to know when to Back Off, and get out once the covertness of the MIssion is BLOWN, by whatever, and in the Ruby Ridge Case, that IDIOT, Didn't know when he was "In over his Head" and pull back, and reGroup. Weaver wasn't going anywhere, and neither was Koresh. Better to back Off and live to fight another Day, than to blindly go forward, and DIE.... I mean Really.... DUH....
  4. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    They both did.

    Well said
  5. pearlselby

    pearlselby Monkey++

    I talked with Clu Gulager actor who played the sheriff in the movie about Waco. He said the real sheriff was scared.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Scared of who, exactly... The Branch Davidiens, or the FEDs? Sheriffs in Texas are Consitutional Sheriffs, I believe... If that is so, what would cause the local Sheriff, to be scared? He is the HIGHEST LEO in his County, and as such, He has final say, on ANY and ALL Police Actions in his County.... This is established Law, by SCOTUS Precedent.... Scared of the Dividiens? Why, they we Peaceful, and kept to themselves. He had previous dealings with them, and found nothing wrong, legally with them...
    pearlselby likes this.
  7. DarkLight

    DarkLight Live Long and Prosper - On Hiatus Site Supporter

    Legal precedent and being a Constitutional Sheriff are wonderful, when things are going normally. Just because he is technically and legally the highest law enforcement officer in the county, doesn't mean he can't fear for his safety or life or that of those he loves.

    CLEARLY the ATF was unconcerned with legalities, and neither were the US Marshals who exceeded their authority by a FAR cry. I agree that they should have been slapped down, as they were, after the fact. After the fact doesn't bring back the dead Sheriff (if he feared for his life), it doesn't rebuild the compound, it doesn't bring David Koresh back from the dead to stand trial.

    Highest law in the <fill in the blank> doesn't mean you can't be intimidated if you are capable of being intimidated personally. It doesn't mean you can't be threatened and if you don't believe you will live to see the judge that threat has meaning.

    I agree with the spirit of what you are saying above but the facts, on the ground, in the heat of the moment don't always translate directly into legal niceties. The two examples (Waco and Ruby Ridge) are not clean, legal, pristine examples of law and order or rule of law. They are prime examples of governmental excess, thuggery, intimidation and in both cases cold blooded MURDER for which NONE of the individuals has ever stood trial (for murder)...and the people, at least some of them, are PISSED about it. There is a reason that Lon Horiuchi has private personal security and had government provided personal security for years (may still).

    I believe in the spirit of the law, but I believe just as strongly that the spirit of the law has been compromised and has taken a back seat to expedience in the name of big government, control and intimidation.
  8. pearlselby

    pearlselby Monkey++

    He said he was scared of the government involvement. Sorry I did not clarify. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
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