Accuracy versus precision: the target analogy

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by GrandpaDave, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    Okay so lets talk about the diffrence between Accuracy and percision ...the real answers my counfound you...

    lets start with with a quote from wiki

    in short you can have great accuracy but crappy precision... the targets will tell the tale...


    get it now
    Cephus, chelloveck, Kingfish and 3 others like this.
  2. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    Okay,Now you are giving me flashbacks to Stone Bay and Col.Norman Chandler...thanks for the memories!
    GrandpaDave, Cephus and Kingfish like this.
  3. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    who needs either one? thats what they make full auto for...
    just pump enuff rounds down range and one is sure to hit

    sounds bad dont it? whats worse is ive actually heard it said
    and the guy meant it
    Kingfish likes this.
  4. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Beast, those mass rounds going down range are for cover for GunKid. He's circling around them to give them a .22 pop pop to the base of they melon.

    but seriously, if i'm aiming for the nose and hit either eyeball, I'm ok with that. I don't need 'em all to go in the same ragged hole. Another thing is that neither me nor my weapons are that accurate or precise, ok may the gun is. I just know how far I can hit a paper plate with my weapons and my skill consistently. Beyond that range is a push, but inside that is a gimme.

    Practice with all of your weapons and know the limitations of both you and the gun combined.
    Cephus, Kingfish and Falcon15 like this.
  5. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    My late Father and Brother are gun fanicates, the type that will blow off 500$ in rounds on a Sunday afternoon. Occaonisually I would go with them, they were utterly amized at my accurecy, and my ability to shoot skeet. I alaways tried to explain that shooting comes out of the Heart, they never understood that.

    In my old age I never shoot game unless Im confident of the kill, chasing dying animals through the woods just aint no fun anymore.
  6. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    My 30-06 is accurate not precise. My AR-15 is both accurate and precise.

    My Ruger 10-22 is accurate not precise and my Marlin 981T is both accurate and precise.

    My 870 Remington 20 gauge smooth bore shooting slugs is neither accurate or precise.

    I will take precise every time as accuracy is ajustable. I love a gun that shoots tight groups from a bench. It leaves the accuracy up to the shooter and his sights or optics. Some rifles like my Remington 7400 are great for deer hunting out to 100 yards. Every shot is in the 6 inch circle but spread around. Not precise but good enough. My AR-15 is so precise that it hides many of the hits because of hitting the same hole. I wish my 30-06 was that precise. Kingfish
    Cephus likes this.
  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    What those dudes don't realise is

    That the infantry soldier doesn't have a personal troop of ammo carriers at his elbow to keep the ammo and spare barrels up to him.

    Even the beaten zone of a SAW or GPMG needs to be accurately targeted to be effective....otherwise the weapon is just an expensive noise maker.
    Opinionated likes this.
  8. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    Well put sir...

    And I can say... even with my bifocals I am accurate but only a few of my most prized guns are precise.... Check out a Thompsons persion hunter in .226 if you want precision
  9. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    Penn and Teller have a new TV show Tell a Lie... in one of their last ep's they tackled the question of Spray and pray (Full Auto Thompson M1928A1 ) vers Aimed controlled fire (Semi Auto and the gun they uses looked to be a Remington R-15)

    So this guy goes to town with the Tommy gun and gets one kill on 8 targets... then comes the Remington "POP,POP,POP,POP" one shot per target and 8 kills in less time than it took to empty the mag of the Tommy gun...

    I'm just saying... a good marksmen will always make his shots count
  10. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    I thought the name sounded familiar...​
    LtCol Norman A. Chandler III commander of Weapons Training Battalion Marine Corps Base, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. 21 May 1988 to 9 August 1991 ....

    I was there in 88... but by then I was working in S-3 so I never had the privilege of meeting the man... But if you were at Stones Bay back then... the odds are pretty good I was one of those grumpy range safety officers who liked to yell at young recruits... just for the fun of it :D

    Kind of an side note... it was there at lejeune I met Oliver North... he was only a Major at the time
  11. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    GrandpaDave,I was a young recruit back in the late 70's.I was already out of the Marines at that time, but still continued to maintain my long distance shooting skills.Col. Chandler allowed civilians to use the ranges on weekends to practice.I became good friends with him and several others,like "RoboGunny" Rudesill and Tim Fischer.A Great bunch of Marines and great times. I was there when LTC.Chandler chased an obnoxious individual out of the NCO club with his .45.Good times, Good times...
  12. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    I never knew they opened up the ranges there... of course I wasn't there long... Not long after Chandler would have taken over I got transferred over to the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center (MCMWTC) up in Bridgeport Calif... Sounds Like I really missed out...

    On the other hand if I stayed I would never have gotten to drive the strangest military vehicle there is
    Hägglunds Bv 206/M973 SUSV, the 'Snowcat' - YouTube Yeah it was way cool
  13. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    They don't? ;)

    The exception to the rule is mechanized infantry.

    and a superb bullet magnet.

    Belt feeders are more pointed than aimed; however, people who do a lot of pointing are right good at it. ;)
  14. tuxdad

    tuxdad Monkey++

    Does this not go along the same principle as "aim small, miss small" ??
    craneje likes this.
  15. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Historically that would be correct; today is a first hit usually wins world.

    Supposedly at 7 yards the affect of an 1/8 inch of muzzle movement changes the point of impact by 6 1/4 inches. Shoot someone in the leg and it will move more than an 1/8.
  16. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    There is theory then there real life...

    Not just in my own experiences but statical evidence proves 90% of the time you learn you just stepped into a gun fight is after people start shooting at you.... In theory timed control aim is a beautiful thing... reality is you point and shoot to get their heads down first then you aim...

    that is in the military LEO's have been known to be so close they could reach out and touch their assailant when the shooting started

    <TABLE dir=ltr border=1 cellSpacing=0 width=496><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#f2f2f2 height=32 vAlign=top colSpan=2><DIR><DIR><DIR>NYPD OFFICER GUNFIGHT DEATHS BY DISTANCE
    <DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>YEARS 1854 TO 1979

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="59%"><DIR><DIR>DISTANCE OF ENCOUNTER

    </TD><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="41%"><DIR><DIR><DIR>OFFICERS

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="59%">CONTACT TO 3 FEET
    </TD><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="41%"><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>86

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="59%">3-6 FEET
    </TD><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="41%"><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>119

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="59%">6-15 FEET
    </TD><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="41%"><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>24

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="59%">15-25 FEET
    </TD><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="41%"><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>12

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="59%">AT 125 FEET (SNIPER)
    </TD><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="41%"><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>1

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="59%">UNDETERMINED
    </TD><TD height=17 vAlign=top width="41%"><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>8

    </TD></TR><TR><TD height=14 vAlign=top colSpan=2>82% (205) of the officers slain (250) were slain within 6’ of their assailants.


    I havent done it in a while but I used to teach a combat pistol course... the first thing I taught my students was how to start firing the moment their weapon cleared the holster... "Rock and Lock"

    You can learn more about what really happens in a gun fight by reading this
    Cephus likes this.
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