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Advice needed.....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dragonfly, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Just before dusk settled over the land up north, and all the critters were snug in their holes in th ground, or rocks, or logs...whatever/wherever critters go in the cold.....
    The sun had gone down, it was colder than a "well diggers shovel", (good one huh?) and the cold weather was setting in again....for a long winter's nap, so it seemed....
    Then all of a sudden, outside there was a heckuva racket, and steel pipe was heard hitting the ground....a clang and then the nice sound that pipe makes when it hits something hard, generally a rock...."gong"!
    The dog went beserk, and ran for the side window in the RV....but, it was of course frosted up, and had at least a 1/2 inch of ice over the outside....
    The front door was sealed up nice and tight, due to earlier rain melting the snow on the roof, then running down the alminum frame before re-freezing into a solid mass...it was solid as steel!
    Out the rear door we go.....
    In the almost dark, there were 2 shadowy figures all dressed up like eskimo's......They were making off with a 55 gallon drum, which had been made into a combination stove/heater.
    It has a 4 inch pipe, 6 feet high, welded to the bung opening for a flue pipe.
    That was what had given the alarm to us and the dog.
    The 2 were well prepared for their night thievery, well dressed for it anyway.....It was funny in a way, they were trying to hobble off, as fast as they could go, carying a heavy drum, 1 man had it by the legs I'd welded to it, and the other was pulling like a madman on the flue pipe...
    They were quite startled to see they had been caught, especially when the flashlight hit them full in the face.
    Now, with the earlier storm that dropped about 30 inches of snow, then some rain and warmer weather, the ground now was mushy mud, about 4 inches deep, but much deeper in the wash area, where 1 fell and his hand sunk about 8-9 inches in the freezing muck!
    As they tried to run into the dark, surrounded by mud, snow, ice, and a few hundred Juniper trees...there was some definite noises that one could only interpret as pain, and fear....
    Now, they did not go away willingly....
    It took 2 rounds over their heads, to make them drop the barrel, and depart hastily....
    Now here is the dilemna I find myself in:
    What can be done to discourage these idiots from trying to steal from my property?
    I can only guess they never passed sandbox 101, as they evidently are illiterate, or the signs would have told them NOT to trespass, and the results of that, if they were so inclined.....
    It has become quite a sad tale at this point, and the very idea that people would be so ignorant as to park a truck 1/2 to 1 mile away, hike in, in that type of weather, over that terrain, then think they could run away, in the dark, with their new "acquisitions".....
    I mean the nearest neighbor is 4 miles from me, and town, depends on the road that is clear at the time, is 12 1/2 to 13.2 miles away.
    Where are these people coming from, and why are they coming out there in the middle of the night (seems to be the LOCAL'S M.O.), to a place that has very little, but 2 really bad K-9's....?
    Signs don't work....
    Barbed wire fencing doesn't work....
    So, what is next?
    I considered a moat with pirahna and Alligators...
    But they'd probably steal them as well....
  2. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Hard to stop determined azzhats. If it hadn't been so cold and rainy, having the dogs outside might have kept the idiots away.
    Hopefully their trousers are 'full' and they'll think twice about coming back. :rolleyes:
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Maybe instead of running them off, you should be neighborly and invite them in to help you feed the pigs?

    There is no ready answer from here. What the your experiences have done is exposed a downside to remote locations; seems like it is possible to be too remote. There just ain't no way one can stay awake 24/7 on sentry duty. Once again, I remain convinced that the tribe is the answer.
  4. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Any idea who they are? Perhaps the local sheriff can have a polite talk with them( save your time in court and their lives..)without having to resort all the way to handcuffs. Agree you really can't stop a determined jackhole and still have things accessible to you. Certainly ask the local sheriffs dept see what they suggest...
    Perhaps video surveillance cameras on the building. Electric fences legal by you??punji pits, and fue gas??? Take some5x8" bits of plywood and drive1 1/2 drywall screws all the way through from the backside,scatterled liberally in the leaves around your perimeter.However;I don't think booby trapping is considered legal or sane..

    Oh that's right you already got involved with some lawsuit happy trespassers...sux.

    What about controlling/monitoring your access road or driveway?? Gotta be a choke point or gate somewhere.

    dogs/yard Geese or attack rabbits...

    CERTAINLY ADD SOME MOTION ACTIVATED SPOTLIGHTS! THEY'RE CHEAP( deer will trip them though , we get that all the time in the backyard.)

    Pretty bold of them to come 'round while you're home..Sure they are merely thieves and not these dirtbikers buddies looking for a little" revenge"??? Ifyou're notalready carrying around the house, now might be a goodtimeto start..
    Question: Did it take tools to remove the wood burner? Did they bring'em or use yours? Good idea to never leave stuff around to assist burglars,i.e. ladders hammers prybars,. big rocks etc..
  5. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I would be very careful about "putting a round over their heads" it is illegal in some states to shoot at someone (and that is what they would say you were doing) unless you were under attack. Know your state laws is my point. Personally I tend to follow the teachings if Clint Smith, the first round I fire will be center mass to stop a threat. All of that is though conjecture as you don't know until you are in the moment. Just be careful.
  6. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I spoke with the local sheriff's officers...No one knows exactly who they are, due to the simple fact that there are so many in the area any more, that are involved in break-ins and thefts.
    Most law enforcement are aware of these cretins, but they say it is basically druggies or "tweakers" in the area, that have moved to these locales to indulge their drug habits without being found.

    I can't "legally" detain them unless I have witness' to the trespassing, and attempted thefts.
    We spoke of the possibilities and even about handcuffing them to a tree!
    No can do!
    When I take them into "custody" I have to "babysit them......
    That includes, potty breaks, feeding and watering!
    Oh joy!
    So, I won't even consider that alternative.

    My objective was to stop them from even entering, but at this point it seems a "lost cause".
    I can and have fired shots in the air, and the deputies have no problem with that, but there is of course a limit to what you can do....
    Due to the weather, heavy wet snows and now rains, our cameras are down.
    We have 8 of them, 12 volt dc types, 2 monitors with quad split screens, and 2 quad boxes to allow for 4 way or single monitoring of any camera.
    The solar powered automatic lights went beserk when they got wet and now are defunct.
    We also have 4 driveway monitors that gave us fits when the wind was blowing the tree branches around...Now they are either shorted out or dead, due to the wet weather also.

    I have some 24 of what we call "sticky boards" of various widths and lengths, which are basically sheets of wood with drywall screws every 3-4 inches sticking up thru them. (really sharp and really nasty)
    I was "advised", that the intention to use them, or the actual use and ANYONE being injured by those devices, are considered as "BOOBYTRAPS" under the law.
    Whereas, they are not just illegal, but severely illegal.

    I called a fencing company and tried to prchase some 'razor wire" or concertina type coiled wire...
    I was denied sale as it is for industrial use only...( ?)
    It costs $218.00 for a 100 ft roll. I wanted 6 rolls.....
    I intended to use them in a triple stack as 2 rolls on the bottom, one roll on top, hog ringed together.

    I bought a bunch ( I mean a whole lot of 'em) of those party poppers, that when the string is pulled they shoot out a wad of streamers made of what looks to be crepe paper...
    I "Modified" them.

    I removed the 1st paper plug, then the confetti, then the second paper plug....exposing the miniature powder charge.
    I added additional black powder, (up to 20 grains), re-plugged them, siliconed the paper plug into place, added cayenne pepper powder, replaced the paper plug and siliconed that into place also.

    Now, these are basically harmless, unless they were to have their strings pulled.
    They will shoot out that cayenne pepper as far as 20 feet, and make a really nice cloud of it.
    I had to add black pepper and flour to the mix, to make the cayenne stop from clumping into a mass, (true cayenne pepper is oily stuff!) that made for a really good device which not only delivers a great deterrent of pepper powders, but the flour also marks the subject and makes it stick!
    The pepper mix ain't too cheap though! $9.00 a lb, for both the black and cayenne types.
    Now, I found I am back to square one, as they can be easily "misconstrued" as a boobytrap device, again.

    I am in the process of exploring the use of "Bear Traps"!
    I'd put up signs, again......
    But knowing these idiots, they'd ignore them and keep on walking in!
    It's become a catch-22 situation......

    The ONLY "option" I seem to have left is to: set up 5-6 strand barbed wire fencing, on the outside perimeter of the land, then use an additional fencing inside that is electrified.
    Leaving a walkway of 3-4 feet wide betwen the 2 fences, and let the dogs "run" the area, weather permitting.

    We did find that the individuals which insist on coming in, use an unmarked pathway they have made, for entry and exit....
    Located conveniently between the No Trespassing signs!
    What we discovered strange is, that it comes into the area at an angle, from the northwest end of the property, and ends up in the middle of our acreage, traveling NW to SE..
    I think the consistency of the problem/s and the use of this "pathway" are the marks of a couple of people, no more than 3 at the most.

    When the weather permits, I fully intend to layout numerous "layers" of barbed wire, spaced 2-3 feet apart, at heights of 4 inches to 18 inches high...basically a line of "Tanglefoot".
    That's about all I can do for now..."legally".

    Next: OC liquid in a bursting container...?
    Hmmmmmm......I like it!
  7. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Sounds like they are putting you through the ringer!! How about a dump truck load of manure in various strategic points?
    Patrol skunks!!!
  8. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I had a similiar problem several years back. I purchased my rural property here in Florida in 1985. I was an absentee landowner until fall of 1993. When I immediately started clearing for my house, I encountered disgruntled hunters who had been using my land for their own private hunting preserve. They all claimed to have permission to be there but, could produce no written proof. After the first couple of encounters I decided to nip it in the bud. I purchased a couple of those throw away cameras/film packages and a page numbered ledger. I also went and talked with the local county Sheriff. I became intimate with my 15 round stainless steel ruger 9mm, and carried it always. Next encounter I demanded ID. After getting the ID, I informed them they were tresspassing and walked with them back to my vehicle where I took their photo and documented the encounter in the ledger. ID was then returned and we walked to their vehicle or the Locked, Posted Gate. I also documented the vehicle info. If they claimed to have permission to be there but couldn't provide written proof or even the names of any of the landowners who surrounded me, I asked if they had a key to the gate. Over the years several locks had been added to the chain. Four locks were removed from the Gate chain in this manner. They were then asked to remove their lock and themselves from the property and not to return without written permission from a landowner. Every 4 pictures or so I got the film developed. Xeroxed the ledger pages that went with the Photo copies, and sent a report on those encounters to the county Sheriff. In Florida the tresspass law is such that if you encounter a tresspasser and them claim ignorance that they were tresspassing, you must document it and give them warning and escort them off the property once. The exemption to this is if they get stuborn and you have a wittness. Also armed tresspass is a felony here. Word got out fairly quick, and I only had to deal with this crap for 2 years. I had one individual arrested for armed tresspass and took it all the way to trial where I cut the member of the Dumb Masses a break and told the Judge I harbored the individual no ill will, that I only didn't want to ever see him back on my property again. The Judge found him guilty, fined him $500 and let him walk with a threat of serious jail time for a repeat offense. I also became a volunteer fireman during this time period and was carrying a county radio where I could call for LEO help if neccessary as I was connected direct to sheriff's dispatch. I wish you good luck with all this, and hope you have no legal ramifications to any of your actions. I did like Ghrit's hog feed idea, but then when my house was broke into in 1999, I wanted the four individuals heads on poles on the four corners of the property. The deputies at the time advised me that talk like that was not a good idea to vocalize or ....
  9. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    May I suggest some strategically placed cactus, you know it is a devil to get all of the thorns out, and it is also native to the southwest. Plant a few cactus here and there, they end up taking over a portion of the area.

  10. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Propane powered potato guns loaded with : one crushed news paper wad; cow manure of indeterminate viscosity topped with another newspaperwad. ("blooey gun")
    in criscrossing fields of fire.
  11. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I would consider the possibility that they are illegals an do not read English.

    E.L. brings up an excellent idea; utilizing natural barriers like cactus is a wonderful strategy. If 'obtained' locally, they shouldn't be costly...and specialty ammo (rocksalt, rubber) for the shotgun is considered less than lethal, although some law enforcement is a real pain so that might not be a great idea...but it would be fun.

    Already mentioned, a gate is a good idea, but probably wouldn't slow these idiots down.

    I can only suggest really big, menacing dogs. They don't have to attack, just deter.

    The area you live in sounds rough. Four miles to nearest home, a dozen to town -it just isn't normal to have so much unwanted activity. There are only three or four possible reasons for this in my opinion; (1) somebody is paying these people to purposefully harass you, for what reasons elude me. (2) Stupid kids are involved, and there really is no trying to make sense of this option. (3) Mexican illegals are desperate and want something from you, and they may not understand your signs. (4) It's personal, for whatever reason.

    I wish you the best, Good luck. Your stories are just awful to hear. I really hope you get a break.
  12. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I considered cactus, but for some reason, it just does not grow well up there 5,200 ft elevation, ? , but there are a few miniature types.....no bigger than 4-5 inches high and small in width....I wanted to transplant some prickly pear and elephant ear (grows big and fast!) but it just won't grow.....

    My next choice would be "Russian Olive", but it may soon be "listed" as a noxious weed! ( go figure!)
    It has some great attributes...4 inch needles, and grows like mad....in fact some people have trouble controlling it!
    It was used at one time as a barrier for livestock...I can see why!

    The main deterrent would be the area and the weather right now, or so I thought!
    It is quite isolated.
    Every time I put up lines and marklrs where to locate posts and fencing, they were stolen, or ran down....Like my aluminum signs....

    The ONLY person that would have any reason to harass me is a nut job that lives about 7 miles away, and he was snowbound for quite some time, his van couldn't handle the deep snow......Locals say he used to have 4 big dogs, 2 rotweilers and 2 dobermans, but they say that the guy ate his own dogs...YUCK!
    Few people have anything to do with him, as he was a member of a larger group once known as: The Arizona Militia. They threw him and his out.
    We know all 4 of them on sight.....He has never met me or seen me...!
    I have a LONG lens...1500mm for my Minolta film cameras, and a 400mm for my Canon digitals...

    There are some illegals in town, I'd say about 40% or more now, that work in the sandstone quarries further north.....But 2 of those closed, from out of the original 6.

    As for personal reasons, I have only met 2 people in that entire town.
    One was the real estate agent that sold me the place, and the other is a guy that came down with my caretaker, to take the Bronco back up north. He's good friends with my caretaker and we barter a lot with them.....(wife and brother)

    Punji sticks and such are no no's....
    almost everything I thought of is illegal, at best!
    Electric fences are fine...I am in an area so far out of the norm, that the 2 local counties ignore most of the area due to it's severe nature....when it's dry, it's dust bowl heaven, when it's wet, it's a mud bog, when it snows, not much moves except the taller critters: elk, antelope, and the deer.

    Other than that, it's hard to get in and out and the roads are tracks, left by other vehicles....and a whole bunch of rocks.
    We have no permit requirements, and it's all considered as Open Range....

    I had 2 game cameras up, but they were easily spotted when the flash units went off..
    I "lost" one to someone!
    With 1,840 feet of linear measure around the place, and the density of the short Juniper trees, it's hard to keep an eye on most parts, until someone is right on top of you out there.
    If the dogs weren't susceptible to freezing, I'd make them stay outside!
    But they would freeze solid in the current weather...
    I did consider getting some geese, but those danged things kick up a racket so bad and you can't turn them "off" when you need to hear!

    We have one guy currently that has been running around on a dirt bike, but he's on our side, and the brother of the guy I met here....He is using his bike to go where many can't get to, and keeping an eye out for who ever is causing problems...as for now, as soon as the weather clears he has to go back to work, cutting and sizing firewood locally.

    What was found was a mystery tonight, just before sundown....There is a old site that is abandoned, with a pile of junk, an old cadillac and a turned over pickup truck.
    The guy that lives up above us on the western mountain slope, found there was a large gathering of what he could only determine was a number of people, but only 1 set of tire tracks in and out.....He found where they had built a fire ring, and figures they had to have been there for at least a full day or more, as there were 80-90 empty beer bottles, and a lot of McDonalds hamburger wrappers.....
    Now, the nearest McDonalds is well over 35 miles away to the east, along the major highway....Strange that people would buy food and beer and then to drive that far, to a pile of old junk in the middle of nowhere, to mud and snow, and stay for any length of time.

    The best I think I can do is to put up doubled fences, and hope I can stop them that way....
    Maybe see if I can borrow a Bull from a local rancher?

    I like the propane fired potato guns, but I'd have to "modify" them to metal pipe instead of pvc, or they'd shatter in the cold....
    PooPoo cannons!
    It would have to be kept warm, or it would blow a rather large nasty hole thru something/someone, when the poop freezes!

    A l-o-n-g time ago, I worked on "range duty" in the Military and was amazed to see some really cool training aids....
    Machine guns powered by acetylene gas!
    They were no more than pipes, with fake exteriors, connected to an automatic valve unit, and a spark plug!
    They were awesome sounding just as if fully automatic, and you got a really decent flame as you'd see on an M-60.
    Loud too!
    Now I wonder.....Could that be done with propane?
    Forget the flame.....I want the sound!

    There are some 12 gauge blank firing devices on the market, but you'd have to be careful where you locate them....and they are $25.00 each...
    I can also get pepper loads for the 12 gauge devices.....


  13. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Seems you've worked pretty hard at this...Fire ring,beer cans mc Ds's in the middle of nowhere sounds like my high school years in colo...we also lived 15 miles or so from "town"... never had trespass problems like you though. Somewhere ( looks for link) I saw a "trip flare" that used shotgun like "report" shells and a trip wire to shoot straight up...
    My "google- fu" is particularly strong this morning:



    <center>Booby Trap Pepper Gas Dispenser

    </center> In the event of a break-in, you need more then just a loud noise. This unit will stop the intruder quickly with PEPPER GAS. All you need do, is to simply string a trip wire (at any height you wish - to avoid pets, etc.) across any area that you want protected. Can easily be used on doors, windows, hallways, etc. When the trip is triggered, the device discharges 4 oz.s of pepper gas in a matter of seconds! One whiff, any your intruder will be on his way, providing he is even able to do so! Also, this unit WILL NOT DAMAGE INTERIOR FURNISHING. This unit is also REUSABLE, as well as quickly and easily installed! Only $159.95

    There's always Blackwater...

    Can't use explosives; I think the only thing left is to gather intel on them: I.D. them or get a vehicle plate.

    How about setting a junk ( bait) pile (liberally salted with "good junk" ) away from the house and see who shows up,?? (get pictures /video of them sitting in front of "no tresspassing" signs)
    put a small fence around a trash burn pit with a gate,(or pile natural brush around it to force movement through a choke point). post it but leave it unlocked.Or even a
    beater vehicle left in the field as bait.

    hightech: Stuff a transmitter in an old but cool looking beer sign in the trash they won't be able to resist it, and when they plug it in you have power for your tx.( did that one once,to a group playing "OPFOR" we were to supply commo gear supposedly "stolen by insurgents", I put a small tracker tx in one of the battery chargers. Unfortunately "they" (also osi tech guys) had an icom scannerprogrammed with our osi freqs in the same room and when they plugged the radio charger in at the hotel, the scanner locked up on a known osi freq. They didn't know what it was; BUT it spooked them enough they put that charger away.) then you go looking for the signal in neighboring towns.

    If you can establish a route, you can dust foliage with flourescing or ir powders and go looking for that particular vehicle in town.

    ( Is dirty trick thinking like this a sign of disease or untapped talent?)
  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yes, those burn pits with beer bottles and trash are very common. Many high school kids go hang out there to drink alcohol and have sex. Good times. I mean -bad kids!

    That's not your problem.

    These people who are giving you problems are almost certainly undocumented illegals, and they really do not qualify for additional consideration as far as human rights go, as far as I see it. I would treat them like any rabid animal, and exterminate with extreme prejudice. I would set up a couple of observation posts, get the thermos and the scoped rifle, and go out for some late night target practice.

    And depending on the situation and the aftermath, I would probably burn the bodies and dispose of them in a pit with all of the rest of the trash. If the local authorities would object in any way, depending on their abilities to track UNDOCUMENTED illegals, I would consider this a simple decision...but that's just how I would do it, and I am not you. If I thought that there would be serious inquiries, I would prepare an acid bath for the mexican remains, or feed it to the hogs piece by piece.

    I know that this may sound homicidal to some, but to me it would be about survival and protecting what's yours. If the local police can't stop the invasion of my property (and they won't), and if these people are illegally in America, have no legal documentation, and are trespassing and stealing from me -they would be target practice, no doubt. But I am a single guy. If I had a family, I would first send out the dogs to take one down. I would then detain the person and interrogate as necessary. If they don't speak English and have no identification, I would then use the language of persuasion in the form of a .357 to get my point across.

    I probably just said the same thing like 4 times. Yes, I would be violent. But, I don't have these types of things happening to me.
  15. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Wow Brokor; that's quite a step up from pepperballs. I hope that's internet bravado speaking,I personally can't rationalize killing anybody for theft of property today. Illegals or not,.
    Certainly not disposing of bodies( a crime in itself). If laws are of no consequence than we are back to boobytraps...
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Bah! Like I said, I am not in that position. I know that I would want to kill those illegals, but in practical terms -I wouldn't until I knew they were illegals. Hence the use of dogs to capture one of them.

    I would probably hog tie the SOB, then take him down to the local Sheriff (if he isn't a Liberal moron) and submit that he can deal with him.

    I would conduct night time ops, complete with night scope, PAQ-4 laser, and a few trip flares. I would only fire at suspected targets if they proved to be (1) a nuisance and (2) illegals. Otherwise, I would have to just start detaining them myself and hauling them in.

    But, I am not in his situation. I instead sit on the couch and eat Nutella sandwiches whilst watching my favorite sci-fi shows (PC, never real TV). I like the smell of frankincense, and I generally bruise easily. I have very tender shins, and I squeal like a little girl if I get kicked there. (not internet bravado I am afraid) [beer]
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    In context then, I don't think I'd execute them simply because they are illegals. Now, here where I am, trespassers can be a threat, and threats can be dealt with regardless of legality of presence in the US, or tweaking, or of a larcenous intent from any cause.

    Now, once hog tied or otherwise prevented from leaving, I'll let the sheriff or ICE deal with them. (Or the coroner, depending. I don't have a pig farm nearby.)

    Dragonfly has a real problem rather than the hypothetical SHTF thinking we do every day. The laws out thataway are unknowns to me, but I'm liking the idea of something with heavy duty thorns, something that grows rather than putting a slew of sheet rock screws in the way of an idiot (then needing to remember where I put 'em.) And strong fencing, barbed wire will keep the free ranging cattle out in case they get a craving for juniper, ya know.
  18. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

  19. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    I say dig man holes with a twinkie, cup of water and sign for bathroom. Cover them, when scumbag tresspasser thief falls in the hole will "babysit" until you can check the hole and remove to take to authorities, or just fill it in :)
  20. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I like the 12 ga. blank firing devices, and they'd have to pointed 'downwards' to the ground...or take a chance on setting a tree ablaze! (lots' of pine sap in them thar juniper trees!)
    Any fire is Not good out there, where they are all I have for concealment!

    I could trip-wire some smoke, or even whistle devices, and that should get their attention....?
    At this point, I'd really rather not have to shoot anyone.....BUT.....I would if they came at me, especially thru a door, a window, or tried to attack me.

    I am hoping that with a minor deterrent or 2, the word will spread that the area is watched and "monitored", and there is little chance of entry or 'escape', if one should get inside.

    Recently, there have been a rash of attacks on dogs up there, by a large pack of coyotes....I was considering setiing out traps, but I have to be licensed by Az. Game and Fish, and keep a log of where and when I set each and every trap and have to turn in the reports to them.....
    There are some really stupid laws on the books!
    1) you can kill a coyote IF and ONLY IF you are threatened personally, or a member of your family (humans only).
    2) You cannot kill a coyote if it is attacking a pet, or destroying your personal property!
    (yeah, like I'm buying into that one!)
    So far no info. on bear or mountain lion traps...
    There was quite an uproar some years back about trapping and dogs being injured...
    So, they may all illegal to use here today.

    As far as the pepper gas, I love the idea, IF I can get the dang gas to go where I want it....problem is: winds at times go all over the place.
    I'd have to mount it on a tree at a height where it would be effective, but not cause an injury by the firing charge: another problem!

    I'd planned on marking off a section across the entire acreage, and fencing it with a single strand of barbed wire...Then post signs on it as : "warning do not enter the area", "animal deterrents being tested", or "animal traps in use"...
    Red on white, or red on yellow....
    But is it worth the bother, the costs, the time and trouble?

    I have to find some way to get these people's attention..
    I am a bit concerned that some (dingleberry), might attempt to return, being upset at having had shots fired over their heads as a warning...
    It could easily get ugly, which I really want to avoid....at this point.

    Now when the balloon goes up, or the wheels fall off the cart, all bets are off!
    I'll go into a self-preservation/defensive mode.

    I wish I had a few more and bigger than 4 inches around, and taller than 12-15 feet!
    It's really strange, south of me some 50+ miles in Prescott, they have pine trees....real ones, that grow massive and tall, way up there!
    East of me by 50+ miles, in Flagstaff, they have the same!
    35 Miles east of me in Williams, they have the same as the other 2, and Flagstaff, and Williams are at a elevation about 6,000 ft, and higher, more than 800 feet higher than me...Then, Prescott is lower in altitude than I am...really confusing!
    Everyone around us have Cedars, Pines, Blue Spruce, and Pinon trees...
    We have Junipers.
    That really Sucks!
    No explanation from N.A.U. or the local county agent's office.....

    Meanwhile; weve spent a small arm and at least 1 leg for heavy coated aircraft cables, and master high security locks ($27.99 each) to secure barrels, propane tanks, carts, tires, and 1 generator.
    No tools are ever left outside, all are locked in a steel trailer, with a steel door.
    In dry weather, we consistently use a lawn and leaf rake to erase all tracks around the immediate area, so we can determine what kind of critters have come by for a visit.....especially 2 legged types.
    We do the same along the front and side of the property where we drive in and out, and we can determine the tire tracks from several vehicles....
    No one comes in by the gate!
    It's 20 feet wide, 2 piece, 6 foot high.....anchored to 2 telephone poles, 7 ft high, set 3 1/2 ft. deep and set in place with rocks/dirt around them.
    But, everone comes thru the north end. Thru the danged trees where I cannot see them.
    So, it's going to require setting up wires and trip wires, and devices, to catch them as they first enter.
    It's that or I have to get a bunch of people to set up for hours on end, and do guard duty over the place...
    Not easily done.....most people around there have to work.

    I have thought about using those party poppers, with long trip wires around the place, and they'd make a real loud bang if they were pulled on!
    (better if they some have add'l charge powder added)
    If I could do it, (trees become a problem) I'd use a 120db siren triggered by IR beams.....
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