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After Much Sacrifice, All Veterans Are Targets for Tyranny

Discussion in 'Tin Foil Hat Lounge' started by pearlselby, Jan 17, 2016.

  1. pearlselby

    pearlselby Monkey++

  2. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    No Pearl.....veterans are no more targets of tyranny than the rest of the US population. The provisions of the Brady Act apply to all US residents, and businesses, government instrumentalities and NGO's, not just veterans. The article referenced in the OP link is BS. The kind of BS that may very well deter veterans from seeking necessary medical treatment in fear that they may lose their beloved guns. Such B.S. also harms the 2nd Amendment cause by devaluing the credibility of 2nd Amendment proponents who resort to such dishonest fear mongering.

    Veterans Gun Seizure Hoax Debunked…Somewhat (updated) | Veterans Today

    Am I the only one doing the fact checking heavy lifting here?

    Sorry if my reply seems a little terse....I get annoyed when the veterans as "crazy psychos" stereotype is mischievously exploited by proponents of both sides of the gun control debate. Veterans deserve better from their fellow citizens.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2016
    Aeason, Dallanta, GrayGhost and 3 others like this.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    From my experience, it's more painful trying to go through the VA than anything the media attempts to smear us with.
    So many people are scared right now, and that is one unfortunate side effect tyranny has.
    Regardless, veterans in various locations in America are stereotyped as "crazy" or a potential threat, but not by the majority.
    The PTSD campaign is quite powerful. With or without treatment, the gun grabbers will not stop at trying to disarm us.
  4. duane

    duane Monkey++

    Take your DD214 into the VA and apply for anything and the first thing you get is a form asking how much you make and what assets you have, I said thank you and left. Four years in USAF made me a life long civilian and the older I get, the happier I am that I made that decision.
  5. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    Maybe you should try "lifting" a little more strongly, as the article you use justifies your position based on dependence on "protections" that were proposed twice and yet never passed.

    One thing about which you are correct is that it is not only vets who are in danger, but we are the primary group currently being attacked. Those of us who are vets and assist other vets in dealing with the VC, er I mean VA, know veterans who are being designated as "incompetent" on the flimsiest of allegations by panels who are not courts and who generally make the decision and then inform the veteran that they have the right to appeal that decision in a long and complicated process. Representation in the appeals is effectively limited by regulations "protecting" us by severely limiting the amount an attorney can charge for representation to less than most competent attorneys charge for a 1 hr consultation.

    However...the root of the problem is that gun owners and supposed 2nd amendment supporters have accepted the infringement of all of our rights by allowing provisions that let the government determine who will be allowed to exercise and going along with the idea that some among us "just can't be trusted" with guns.
    pearlselby and GrayGhost like this.
  6. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    I would rather pay for private insurance and copays through my private insurance than to get it for free from the VA.
    pearlselby and duane like this.
  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    My comments here should not be construed as a personal attack on pearl, or indeed any particular person here.

    I make no argument concerning the quality, effectiveness, or fairness of the services provided by VA to US veterans. The OP linked article is an opinion piece that makes a number of unsupported truth claims that have no substance. I comprehend the conflict between proponents and opponents of 2A rights, and the temptation by both sides to rely on propaganda that has a certain air of truthiness to it, rather than actually being true. There is also a temptation to swallow whole, and replicate for the attention of others, the propaganda that tends to appeal to one's own inclinations than what is necessarily accurate or true. Some here surrender to that temptation...while some try to resist it.

    Gun ownership is a vexing issue in many societies. Although the greater majority of folk in the US and Australia who own guns are trustworthy and responsible people, it also has to be recognised that there is also a significant fraction of folk for whom gun ownership is as much a hazard to themselves as it is to their fellow citizens. Are the gun deaths and casualties in a society caused by incompetent, irresponsible, and/or criminal gun owners an acceptable price to be paid in order that there be no infringement of 2A rights? That is not a question so easily to be answered by some, hence the tension between both sides of the debate.
    pearlselby likes this.
  8. duane

    duane Monkey++

    Me also mysterymet. I am 78 now and thank the Lord that so far I haven't had to and plan to never do so. When I was 6 years old I saw the treatment the WWW I vets got and it has never changed as far as the VA goes and unlike past generations, we veterans do not take care of our own as well as the past. I had a paper route when I was 12, in 1950, and one of my customers was Jewish and ran the local junkyard in a small Minnesota town. He was a long ways from being the most prosperous man in town and certainly did not have the largest business. There was a small apartment in the back of the office and a guy lived there and worked in the junkyard and was a total alcoholic. I asked the owner one time about him, he said that the gentleman had some problems, but that he was a Marine in the first wave of landing craft and one of the few in his boat to survive at Tarawa and he had been badly wounded. He said he had been a Marine at Iwa Jima and that as long as he was alive, that gentleman would do what he had to, but would always have food and a place to sleep. The local town chief of police was a retired Marine and he made sure he got home and to bed each night.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  9. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    "Are the gun deaths and casualties in a society caused by incompetent, irresponsible, and/or criminal gun owners an acceptable price to be paid in order that there be no infringement of 2A rights?"

    In my opinion yes they are. I am willing to sacrifice some assumed "security" to preserve my personal liberty.
    More people die due to car accidents but I am not willing to give up my car either. Maybe that is something that you guys over there cannot comprehend about our culture. That doesn't make either one of our cultures better than the other. It just makes us different. Personally I've got nothing but love for the Aussies having been on multiple deployments where they were right with us.
    Dunerunner, GrayGhost, Brokor and 3 others like this.
  10. pearlselby

    pearlselby Monkey++

    That is what my hubby did. NO VA.
  11. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Fear is a very persuasive motivator for the weak minded. Natural selection cannot be stopped. When you think all is fine and orderly, the cosmic comedy comes to town and throws chaos at you. These are all absolute truths. You can try to deny, but you'd only be fooling yourself.

    Exposure to germs can lead to greater immunity. When I was young, I never got sick. Through the average day I was exposed to dirt and cuts just being a kid. Look at how humans fare now. Super bugs and dietary problems due to overzealous parents keeping their kids isolated.

    First plane crash and we learn to fix problems. We get safer in flight through exposure to flying. Lots were afraid to trust planes when flight began. In time we learned. Now we travel internationally and to space.

    Cattle stampedes would kill you if caught in one. All manner of death awaits, though how can you live if you fear to live? With firearms we can provide bodily safety, relaxation, food and a stand against those who believe their way is the only way.

    Should we let fear, that we may be killed, stop us from living? I say no. We fly, drive, eat bad foods, do stupid stuff and any of it could kill us. Do we isolate ourselves in the vain hope that death won't come for us? No. What does it mean to be human? What keeps us dominate over this world? It is our indomitable spirit. That never say die attitude. The push to fight adversity and never give up.

    Should we limit our personal freedoms because some nut job might snap and kill us? I say no. If your attacker has a weapon and you have none, you will most assuredly be killed. If your attacker has a weapon and you do as well, chances are you can make it through.

    We as a society have become lax and weak. We prop up rights for the criminal and prosecute the victim. We allow ourselves to become victims because we do not want to hurt feelings. Our spirit and backbone have withered to this cancer of stupidity. We take no responsibility for actions and blame others for our bad choices.

    We don't hold accountable those who repeatedly show they lack morals. We allow repeat offenders to continue on their merry way with a pat on the wrist. You know mentalproblems when you see them. These people should be helped instead of ignored.

    People, it is a new year and era. The "psychos" that were kept under lockand key in the basement are now free to roam. The door has been thrown open and the chains unlocked. Yet we still do not help them. If we don't admit it to the world, then the sickness doesn't exist. Right? Though it does not say that the individuals are any less than us as far as rights go. They are human. They deserve to live as each of us. Is it a game of your mental deficiency is worse than mine? How many of actual shootings were by people with mental illness as opposed to "normal" people?

    There were no conditions placed on the second amendment at the time it was written down, so why are there now? Were people not mentally disturbed back then? The only failure is with us and not admitting a family member has a problem. We cover up blemishes and anything that might stigmatize the family name.

    We allow for disrespect and don't teach them that life has value. When they run amok, we wring our hands and wonder what went wrong. Absent, negligent parents with no backbone assure this will continue. So let's punish those who would never break the law because someone may break the law.

    I will leave you with two thoughts. I don't care who said it, though it is true. "Those who surrender liberty for a bit of safety, deserve neither". You give up a little today, a little tomorrow and so on, pretty soon you will have none. That makes you a slave subject to the whim of others. Secondly, if you do not stand for something you cannot blame anyone when your neck is under the axe.
    arleigh, kellory and duane like this.
  12. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    1. Fark the VA...I do believe they have killed or maimed more Americans both physically and mentally than our alleged enemies have.

    2. Yes, there is a cost to freedom that I am willing to accept. This notion that I should give up any of my unalienable human rights because others might abuse them is pure horsepucky. If you want security, there are plenty of countries that will gladly give you that illusion in exchange for giving up those pesky rights you undervalue. I'd invite you to move there rather than to give up MY rights due to your own irrational fears of your fellow man.
  13. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    It is what I do also (though I do let them furnish those medications that are old enough for them to provide). Unfortunately, many of the veterans I assist have not been fortunate enough to be able to do so...and are thereby stuck with the system.
  14. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    Actually, as I remember, Chell lives in Australia...where they did give up their guns.
  15. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Aussies are known to be MORE Loonie, than Americans, so their Goverment had to take their Guns away, for fear of their OWN Citizens....[lolol]
    3M-TA3 likes this.
  16. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Lots to say here and one liners won't do.

    First, to say the VA is totally at fault is just more misinformation, the not so veiled threat of
    "even forcing veterans to submit to a Psychiatric exam against their will" is more claptrap.
    Just more noise from those that as usual have no plan to fix anything but strive to only to cause more problems.

    Yes the media article above is a sound bite bit is just more hate and discontent for the masses that do not take the time to find out the facts.

    Later I will reply to selected comments by others in this thread and try to provide a more down to earth view of what is current in ways and means to help vets. One liners are for comedians not those who want to help Vets.

    If you have a question about a VA process or need some suggestions/help with a claim then post it or PM me.

    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
    kellory, pearlselby and chelloveck like this.
  17. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    There are more firearms in Australian private hands (outside of the military and LE) now, than there were in Australia at the time of the gun buy back (post Port Arthur massacre).



  18. pearlselby

    pearlselby Monkey++

    That is very kind of you, HK_User
  19. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    Then, if you wish a perspective from one who has been assisting vets in their battles with the VA for many years, feel free to ask me.
  20. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    I do not have any questions, are you willing to provide cases?

    My purpose on this thread is to debunk the phony media hype.
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