Am I a Cold Hearted SOB or WHAT ?

I really hate to nit pick at fine points; being`as everybody's doing so well, but isn't communism (ussrversion) ,
considered a leftist (i.e."liberal") Ideology? Central control by the state who knows what you need("from each from according to his abilities; to each as his needs" or something like that?). So it's precisely people like her her who crushed that country only those particular folks attained absolute power????[shrug][shrug]"What if "the russians were allowed personal weapons,? Stalins purges would have went differently??

 

You know, reality is a cold thing. You don't do anyone any favors by suger-coating it.

 

I equate pro-gun and anti-gun to militant and non militant. More regulation vs less regulation. One extreme vs another. There are lots of examples. When pro-gun were the majority as it were in the 1700 to mid 1900 what happened ? We ended up hunting to extinction quite a few species like the carrier pigeon. We almost hunted elk out of the lower 48's. This was the same time period when we settled disputes with killing each other, gentelmen's duel. We have found out since that near zero regulation of hunting does not work. We have found out that settling disputes with killing does not work. We used to just dump whatever waste we wanted into our rivers and streams. Dead streams and sick people convinced us that it was a piss poor idea to keep doing that. Extremes don't work. If you have just one type of person or one side without the other you get an extreme. Extremes don't work. Not completely true, rather extremes are effective only in a very narrow set of circumstances. Once those circumstances change (and they always do) it ceases to work.

Without the anti-guns, the pacifists, the Ghandi's of the world we would be less balanced. More prone to constant conflict. People A shoot people B so people B get guns and shoot people A and the cycle continues. It takes someone to try to fix the problem without guns to finaly end the conflict. We have seen this time and time again in history. Conflict ends when both sides talk and agree. A meeting of the minds. Extremes don't solve anything.

Without the militant executive branch the legislative and judicial branches could not exist. Without the legislative and judical branchs the executive branch would go amok and like the ussr by default could not exist.

It really does take all kinds of people to keep a balanced healthy group. Extremes may work in short term but never do long term.

 

Bingo.... it is and does not work either does it ? We really do need each other, both sides to be a balanced healthy community.

 

Imagine 10yo kids running around with fully automatic ak-47's Seems absurd but it does happen (somalia, chad, pick any 3rd world country in conflict). You need some sort of regulation some sort of balance somewhere. The right to bear arms unlimited by anything is just as dangerous and unhealthy as no arms at all.

 

In this woman's case I just want to point out that there is a difference between non-violence and delusion. If you live in a dangerous neighborhood and don't want to carry a gun because of your beliefs I am OK with that. However, if you don't carry mace or take a self-defense course, if you don't put bars on your windows and lock your doors then you aren't proving anything other than the fact that people need to protect themselves. If that is your point then by all means feel free to get raped and killed in order to prove that people don't need to protect themselves. Not believing in violence doesn't make it go away. Prepare passive defenses like locks and bars and prove to the world that you really don't need guns to be safe in your home. This woman didn't have to die, and her death proved nothing to anyone. Dying for no reason other than denial proves nothing and IMHO is the height of stupidity.

 

Exactly which means our "extreme" is not their natural balance.

That statement is an absolute, an extreme. There must be some sort of balance absolutes don't work. This is how I support the "need" for pacifists. There always has to be one side to regulate another. Our forefathers saw this and based our constitution on it.

 

H... We're prolly gonna continue to disagree on the "balance" issue. The over-hunting problem was one of greed (market hunting and habitat loss), and had nothing to do with pro or anti gun attitudes or even pro/anti hunting attitudes for that matter. And the anti-hunters did not bring back the game, the hunters did. Peta doesn't set aside land and put money into re-vitalizing game populations, hunters and hunter organizations do. The antis have done nothing of substance in this regard.

 

What is done or not in specific circumstances is irrelevent to my main point. There has to be at least two sides and by default each one as important as the other. One side seeing the other side as less than is a very common and sadly large mistake.

But it is ok to dissagree, it is what make the world go round

 

We want to be left alone to exercise our god given government guaranteed rights. I may not carry on a daily basis because of my choice, environment, or laws, but I don't begrudge anybody else to; as I may not fully understand their situation. The"Anti"s"want what they want. everyone elses' reasoning be damned. They will expect the "po-po" to be there in 15 seconds to protect them. hartage is scaring me : I'm becoming libero-phobic.

 

Tango ghrit,

We all agree basicly everything on this thread. I have my guns and fully understand my own reasons for having them. My stance was not opposed to either of yours. It was opposed to undertones of other posts that seemed to infer that anti-gun means less-than. As if they have no right to feel that way. I will defend them if pro gun people think they have no right to think that way. I will defend pro gun people if the anti-gun people feel they can push their values on us. Just because a party is on one side of the fence or the other does not make them less-than.

 

Well hartage for the sake of clarity let me define what I mean by anti-gun and feel confident that this women views were due to her 30 years as an editor of a extremely left leaning newspaper and as such mirrored her employers .

I am not referring to people who simple have no interest in owning a gun for any reason including self defense because they feel they don't need it and the chances of being victimized by a violent criminal are remote at best .

The mass hoards of folks who fit the above description I refer to in many terms , such as fools , sheep our just morons . Many of these people are well aware of the dangers in life and at least take some precautions such as owning dogs or alarm systems in their homes and businesses or carrying cell phones .

Now an anti on the other hand will completely refuses to believe in personal responsibility , they think the criminal is just a poor misunderstood victim of us meanies who think they deserve to be punished for their crimes and as such all one has to do is comply with a criminal and they wont be hurt .

And of course they think we should all be disarmed because we are too irresponsible to own guns and owning one somehow transforms US into something more vile than the proven criminals .

Not only do they wish to tell us how to live our lives in regards to gun ownership but in every other facet .

How to raise our children , what vehicle to drive , what to set our thermostats on , how and what to eat and even some of the oddest things you can imagine .

They tell business owners what color they may paint their buildings , how much shrubbery to have on their land because it must all pass their approval and not offend anyone .

You claim that one shouldn't think of them as "less than" why not ?

This is the manner in which they think of the common man as they are more often than not products of the "higher learning machine" while the common man goes to work and deals with the real world they spend their first few years of adulthood "playing" and avoiding life and it's responsibilities .

O to be certain they attend a few classes each week and sit and absorb the lessons of how to live and how to think from other liberals , but then it's off to Aruba or Ft Lauderdale to play on Mommy and Daddy's money and spend the week drunk and fornicating with complete strangers while doing as many drugs as they can get their hands on . Yet they wish to lecture us on what is right and wrong and pass laws or elect others of their ilk to pass the laws to dictate how we live .

Being Antigun to me is just the tip of the iceberg , it is an entire lifestyle to which they subscribe and wish to force on the entire Nation all the while somehow thinking they are somehow "Special" and entitled to privileges and considerations us common folk are not .

The community which the women I mentioned is the community in which many a local celebrity and politicians lives .

In it many of our local athletes live , as well as radio and television personalities . Multi million dollar homes are the norm rather than the exception in that community .

I have no doubt that she thought her "station" in life somehow made her immune to all of the ugliness of life and felt she was better than the average man .

Personally I am glad in the end her fantasies came crashing down as she was reduced to fighting for her life .

I would bet that for the first time in her life she actually lived and appreciated and understood life , in her life and death struggle with her attacker and yes I bet she rejected all that she believed and had been taught by her fellow liberals .

You cling to the belief in reason and ideas , the problem is evil doesn't reason nor think or care for your ideas it never has nor ever will .

The greatest accomplishments of man were brought about by force always have and always will .

Do you think the pyramids were built because the Pharaohs thought they were a neat idea and the millions of people who actually did the work agreed ? NO the people who built them were slaves forced into the job and spent their entire lives doing the work and died long before completion only to be replaced by generations of more slaves and overseers .

Every great nation was born by force and died by force not by reason or ideas , unless you consider the organization and use of force an idea in itself .

America will one day fall due to force necessary because of faulty "Ideas" ideas which has led us to the present state of entitlement of millions of freeloaders who think they deserve just as much respect and comfort , sitting on their butts cranking out kids as those who work for what they have , all the while people sit around discussing it rather than fixing it .

 

Big001 I have a particularly good perspective from both sides of the coin if you will. My father is the patriarch of the extended family being the eldest child among his siblings. He ended his education at the 7th grade to be able to get a job and help grandpa send the rest of the kids through school. The rest of my uncles and aunts are college educated and are accountant, mech engineer, radiologist and business admin. My father shares your view point when it comes to "educated liberal" he much does not like them. He remains the patriarch of the extended family out of respect for his sacrifices of himself for the sake of the family.

Having said that there are vast glaring differences between him and my uncles. There are subject matters that he simply just does not understand and perhaps never will. His world is very narrow and if it is not inside his world it must be wrong or non existant. At 81 he still gets up before the sun rises as he always has his whole life. However narrow his world is and however limited he is does that make him any less ? No, choices were made and the family has benefited greatly from his sacrifice. On the same token my college educated aunts and uncles are no less either.

So far you have railed against anti-gun, liberals, affluent people and even educated people. I'll risk to say you will do the same to anybody that does not think like you or looks like you. You are glad some lady you don't even know met a violent death. She is one spoke on the wheel as are you, me and everyone else. We all have a place. Just because someone does not look like you, or sound like you or think like you does not make them wrong. It certainly does not make them less than. Make more money than you or less money than you does not make someone less-than. It makes us different, no more no less.

I have expended as much energy into this as I care to. We will just have to agree that I disagree with you.

 

Well, this was a nice philosophical debate... I'd say she got what she prepared for. That is IF she was the hypothetical lefty described, which I'll assume for the sake of argument: for all we know the perp just caught her with her weapon disassembled.

Anyway, I hear she lived through the attack, but when she came to at the hospital, Charlton Heston beat her to death with the butt end of his rifle.

 

Well hartage I knew your true colors would come shining through all it would take is the right bait .

While most of us have posted 4-5 times or less in this thread you've been rambling on for 20 posts now trying to convince us of the worth of the left wing antigun fanatics , grasping at any straw you can find and even getting as ridiculous as pulling a fruitcake like Ghandi out of your hat .

Your last post was the most precious in which you finally couldn't resist insinuating that anyone who sees the problem in our country with these people must be some uneducated boob who never finished grade school and a bigot on top of it .

My "railings against anti-gun, liberals, affluent people and even educated people" as you put it is nothing more than a collection of old articles straight out of the RKBA section of G&A magazines from as far back as the 1970's reworded and of course shortened considerably .

hartage you're nothing more than a poser and a troll who's obviously spent some time on chat forums and reading gun magazines so you can speak with some minor semblance of credibility , I for one wish you would go back to wherever you came from .