"American police force" investigated

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Tango3, Oct 2, 2009.


  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    One thing the catoon misses is the fact that the worker is not slave to the owner in a capitalist society. If he is not happy with the wage provided for his services he is able to sell his knowledge and service to another for a higher wage.

    I have always said that communism is probably the purist from of governance ever concieved.
    The theory is unarguable, it is in real world practice where it fails miserably.
    The reason why it never has, nor ever will succeed is that it does not take into consideration the base, greedy, evil if you will, nature of man.

    Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Communism has the power to turn the most noble of pigs into ignoble men.
     
  2. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer



    Very few threads have drawn out a deep guttural reaction from me as this one;

    However in the interest of knowledge I'll add this surprising article from Reagan economist Paul craig Roberts.:
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]Marx and Lenin Reconsidered [/SIZE][/FONT]

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“Capital is dead labor, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor it sucks.” [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]--Karl Marx[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+3]I[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]f Karl Marx and V. I. Lenin were alive today, they would be leading contenders for the Nobel Prize in economics.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Marx predicted the growing misery of working people, and Lenin foresaw the subordination of the production of goods to financial capital’s accumulation of profits based on the purchase and sale of paper instruments. Their predictions are far superior to the “risk models” for which the Nobel Prize has been given and are closer to the money than the predictions of Federal Reserve chairmen, US Treasury secretaries, and Nobel economists, such as Paul Krugman, who believe that more credit and more debt are the solution to the economic crisis.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In this first decade of the 21st century there has been no increase in the real incomes of working Americans. There has been a sharp decline in their wealth. In the 21st century Americans have suffered two major stock market crashes and the destruction of their real estate wealth. [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Some studies have concluded that the real incomes of Americans, except for the financial oligarchy of the super rich, are less today than in the 1980s and even the 1970s. I have not examined these studies of family income to determine whether they are biased by the rise in divorce and percentage of single parent households. However, for the last decade it is clear that real take-home pay has declined.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The main cause of this decline is the offshoring of US high value-added jobs. Both manufacturing jobs and professional services, such as software engineering and information technology work, have been relocated in countries with large and cheap labor forces.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The wipeout of middle class jobs was disguised by the growth in consumer debt. As Americans’ incomes ceased to grow, consumer debt expanded to take the place of income growth and to keep consumer demand rising. Unlike rises in consumer incomes due to productivity growth, there is a limit to debt expansion. When that limit is reached, the economy ceases to grow.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The immiseration of working people has not resulted from worsening crises of over-production of goods and services, but from financial capital’s power to force the relocation of production for domestic markets to foreign shores. Wall Street’s pressures, including pressures from takeovers, forced American manufacturing firms to “increase shareholders’ earnings.” This was done by substituting cheap foreign labor for American labor.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Corporations offshored or outsourced abroad their manufacturing output, thus divorcing American incomes from the production of the goods that they consume. The next step in the process took advantage of the high speed Internet to move professional service jobs, such as engineering, abroad. The third step was to replace the remains of the domestic work force with foreigners brought in at one-third the salary on H-1B, L-1, and other work visas.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]This process by which financial capital destroyed the job prospects of Americans was covered up by “free market” economists, who received grants from offshoring firms in exchange for propaganda that Americans would benefit from a “New Economy” based on financial services, and by shills in the education business, who justified work visas for foreigners on the basis of the lie that America produces a shortage of engineers and scientists. [/SIZE][/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In Marx’s day, religion was the opiate of the masses. Today the media is. Let’s look at media reporting that facilitates the financial oligarchy’s ability to delude the people.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The financial oligarchy is hyping a recovery while American unemployment and home foreclosures are rising. The hype owes its credibility to the high positions from which it comes, to the problems in payroll jobs reporting that overstate employment, and to disposal into the memory hole of any American unemployed for more than one year.[/SIZE][/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]On October 2 statistician John Williams of shadowstats.com reported that the Bureau of Labor Statistics has announced a preliminary estimate of its annual benchmark revision of 2009 employment. The BLS has found that employment in 2009 has been overstated by about one million jobs. John Williams believes the overstatement is two million jobs. He reports that “the birth-death model currently adds [an illusory] net gain of about 900,00 jobs per year to payroll employment reporting.”
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]-more at-:
    [/SIZE][/FONT]


    http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts10072009.html

    interesting latoc thread on this article:

    http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,54349.0.html

    Roberts says we are seeing the end of the capitalist cycle foreseen by the infamous Mr. Marx. There Simply is no where in the world left to sell the results of our productivity. He doesn'tsay theanswer would be communism.There's also a thread like this on Latoc the"gist" is the hardcore communist countries will meld in alittle capitaslism and capitalist countrieswill have to work insome socialism All countries in the world may reach an "even temperature" like potatos in a warm pot.
     
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Let's not lose sight of where that $75 bucks goes. Let's see, taxes, licenses, machine maintenance, office staff, health care plans, SS contributions (another tax, maybe, depending on your point of view) raw materials for Joe Wrench to make into widgets, shipping. I guess there is more, but the suit had the balls to go for the blue chips. He is entitled to some compensation for that alone.

    Edit to add: I got this from a friend that WAS a subchapter S business man. This came to him from a friend of his.


    <style></style> Long email, but very educational!!
    Subject: Small Businesses - Can they survive?



    The Employee Meeting:
    I would like to start by thanking you for attending this
    meeting, though it's not like you had much of a choice.
    After all, attendance was mandatory. I'm also glad many
    of you accepted my invitation to your family members to be
    here as well. I have a few remarks to make to all of you,
    and then we'll retire to the ballroom for a great lunch
    and some employee awards.

    I felt that this meeting was important enough to close all 12
    of our tire and automotive shops today so that you could be
    here. To reassure you, everybody is being paid for the day
    --- except me. Since our stores are closed we're making
    no money. That economic loss is mine to sustain. Carrington
    Automotive has 157 full time employees and around 30
    additional part-timers. All of you are here. I thank you for
    that.

    When you walked into this auditorium you were handed a rather
    thick 78-page document. Many of you have already taken a
    peek. You were probably surprised to see that it's my
    personal tax return for 2008. Those of you who are adept at
    reading these tax returns will see that last year my taxable
    income was $534,000.00. Now I'm sure this seems rather
    high to many of you. So ... let's talk about this tax
    return.

    Carrington Automotive Enterprises is what we call a Sub-S - a
    Subchapter S corporation. The name comes from a particular
    part of our tax code. Sub-S status means that the income
    from all 12 of our stores is reported on my personal tax
    return. Businesses that report their income on the
    owner's personal tax return are referred to as
    "small businesses." So, you see now that this
    $534,000 is really the total taxable income - the total
    combined profit from all 12 of our stores. That works out to
    an average of a bit over $44,000 per store.

    Why did I feel it important for you to see my actual 2008 tax
    return? Well, there's a lot of rhetoric being thrown
    around today about taxes, small businesses and rich people.
    To the people in charge in Washington right now I'm a
    wealthy American making over a half-million dollars a year.
    Most Americans would agree: I'm just another rich guy;
    after all ... I had over a half-million in income last year,
    right? In this room we know that the reality is that I'm
    a small business owner who runs 12 retail establishments and
    employs 187 people. Now here's something that
    shouldn't surprise you, but it will: Just under 100
    percent ... make that 99.7 percent of all employers in this
    country are small businesses, just like ours.

    Every one of these businesses reports their income on a personal
    income tax return. You need to understand that small
    businesses like ours are responsible for about 80 percent of
    all private sector jobs in this country, and about 70
    percent of all jobs that have been created over the past
    year. You also need to know that when you hear some
    politician talking about rich people who earn over $200,000
    or $500,000 a year, they're talking about the people who
    create the jobs.

    The people who are now running the show in Washington have been
    talking for months about raising taxes on wealthy Americans.
    I already know that in two years my federal income taxes are
    going to go up by about 4.5 percent. That happens when Obama
    and the Democrats allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. When my
    taxes climb by 4.5 percent the Democrats will be on
    television saying that this really isn't a tax increase.
    They'll explain that the Bush tax cuts have expired ..
    nothing more. Here at Carrington we'll know that almost
    5% has been taken right off of our bottom line. And that
    means it will be coming off your bottom line.

    Numbers are boring, I know ... but let's talk a bit more about
    that $534,000. That's the money that was left last year
    from company revenues after I paid all of the salaries and
    expenses of running this business. Now I could have kept
    every penny of that for myself, but that would have left us
    with nothing to grow our business, to attract new customers
    and to hire new employees. You're aware that we've
    been talking about opening new stores in Virginia Beach and
    Newport News . To do that I will have to buy or lease
    property, construct a building and purchase inventory. I
    also have to hire additional people to work in those stores.
    These people wouldn't immediately be earning their pay.
    So, where do you think the money for all of this comes from?
    Right out of our profits .. right out of that $534,000. I
    need to advertise to bring customers in, especially in these
    tough times. Where do you think that money comes from? Oh
    sure, I can count it as an expense when I file my next
    income tax return .. but for right now that comes from
    either current revenues or last year's profits. Revenues
    right now aren't all that hot ... so do the math. A good
    effective advertising campaign might cost us more than
    $300,000.

    Is this all starting to come together for you now?
    Right now the Democrats are pushing a nationalized health care
    plan that, depending on who's doing the talking, will
    add anywhere from another two percent to an additional 4.6
    percent to my taxes. If I add a few more stores, which I
    would like to do, and if the economy improves, my taxable
    income ... our business income ... could go over one million
    dollars! If that happens the Democrats have yet another tax
    waiting, another five percent plus! I've really lost
    track of all of the new government programs the Democrats
    and President Obama are proposing that they claim they will
    be able to finance with new taxes on what they call
    "wealthy Americans."

    And while we're talking about health care, let me explain
    something else to you. I understand that possibly your
    biggest complaint with our company is that we don't
    provide you with health insurance. That is because as your
    employer I believe that it is my responsibility to provide
    you with a safe workplace and a fair wage and to do all that
    I can to preserve and grow this company that provides us all
    with income. I no more have a responsibility to provide you
    with health insurance than I do with life, auto or
    homeowner's insurance. As you know, I have periodically
    invited agents for health insurance companies here to
    provide you with information on private health insurance
    plans.

    The Democrats are proposing to levy yet another tax against
    Carrington in the amount of 8 percent of my payroll as a
    penalty for not providing you with health insurance. You
    should know that if they do this I will be reducing every
    person's salary or hourly wage by that same 8 percent.
    This will not be done to put any more money in my pocket. It
    will be done to make sure that I don't suffer
    financially from the Democrat's efforts to place our
    healthcare under the control of the federal government. It
    is your health, not mine. It is your healthcare, not mine.
    These are your expenses, not mine. If you think I'm
    wrong about all this, I would sure love to hear your
    reasoning.

    Try to understand what I'm telling you here. Those people
    that Obama and the Democrats call "wealthy
    Americans" are, in very large part, America 's
    small business owners. I'm one of them. You have the
    evidence, and surely you don't think that the owner of a
    bunch of tire stores is anything special. That $534,000
    figure on my income tax return puts me squarely in Democrat
    crosshairs when it comes to tax increases.

    Let's be clear about this ... crystal clear. Any federal tax
    increase on me is going to cost you money, not me. Any new
    taxes on Carrington Automotive will be new taxes that you,
    or the people I don't hire to staff the new stores I
    won't be building, will be paying. Do you understand
    what I'm telling you? You've heard about things
    rolling downhill, right? Fine .. then you need to know that
    taxes, like that other stuff, roll downhill. Now you and I
    may understand that you are not among those that the
    Democrats call "wealthy Americans," but when this
    "tax the rich" thing comes down you are going to
    be standing at the bottom of the mud slide, if you get my
    drift. That's life in the big city, my friends ... where
    elections have consequences.

    You know our economy is very weak right now. I've pledged to
    get us through this without layoffs or cuts in your wages
    and benefits. It's too bad the politicians can't get
    us through this without attacking our profits. To insure our
    survival I have to take a substantial portion of that
    $534,000 and set it aside for unexpected expenses and a
    worsening economy. Trouble is, the government is eyeing that
    money too ... and they have the guns. If they want it, they
    can take it.

    I don't want to make this too long. There's a great
    lunch waiting for us all. But you need to understand
    what's happening here. I've worked hard for 23 years
    to create this business. There were many years where I
    couldn't take a penny in income because every dollar was
    being dedicated to expanding the business. There were tough
    times when it took every dollar of revenues to replenish our
    inventory and cover your paychecks. During those times I
    earned nothing. If you want to see those tax returns, just
    let me know.

    OK... I know I'm repeating myself here. I don't hire
    stupid people, and you are probably getting it now. So let
    me just ramble for a few more minutes.Most Americans
    don't realize that when the Democrats talk about raising
    taxes on people making more than $250 thousand a year,
    they're talking about raising taxes on small businesses.
    The U.S. Treasury Department says that six out of every ten
    individuals in this country with incomes of more than
    $280,000 are actually small business owners. About one-half
    of the income in this country that would be subject to these
    increased taxes is from small businesses like ours.
    Depending on how many of these wonderful new taxes the
    Democrats manage to pass, this company could see its tax
    burden increase by as much as $60,000. Perhaps more.

    I know a lot of you voted for President Obama. A lot of you
    voted for Democrats across the board. Whether you voted out
    of support for some specific policies, or because you liked
    his slogans, you need to learn one very valuable lesson from
    this election. Elections have consequences. You might have
    thought it would be cool to have a president who looks like
    you; or a president who is young, has a buff body, and
    speaks eloquently when there's a teleprompter in the
    neighborhood. Maybe you liked his promises to tax the rich.
    Maybe you believed his promise not to raise taxes on people
    earning less than a certain amount. Maybe you actually
    bought into his promise to cut taxes on millions of
    Americans who actually don't pay income taxes in the
    first place. Whatever the reason .. your vote had
    consequences; and here they are.

    Bottom line? I'm not taking this hit alone. As soon as the
    Democrats manage to get their tax increases on the books,
    I'm going to take steps to make sure that my family
    isn't affected. When you own the business, that is what
    you're allowed to do. I built this business over a
    period of 23 years, and I'm not going to see my family
    suffer because we have a president and a congress who think
    that wealth is distributed rather than earned. Any
    additional taxes, of whatever description, that President
    Obama and the Democrats inflict on this business will come
    straight out of any funds I have set aside for expansion or
    pay and benefit increases. Any plans I might have had to
    hire additional employees for new stores will be put aside.
    Any plans for raises for the people I now have working for
    me will be shelved. Year-end bonuses might well be
    eliminated. That may sound rough, but that's the
    reality.

    You're going to continue to hear a lot of anti-wealth rhetoric out
    there from the media and from the left. You can chose to
    believe what you wish .. .but when it comes to Carrington
    Automotive you will know the truth. The books are open to
    any of you at any time. I have nothing to hide. I would hope
    that other small business owners out there would hold
    meetings like this one, but I know it won't happen that
    often. One of the lessons to be learned here is that taxes
    ... all taxes ... and all regulatory costs that are placed
    on businesses anywhere in this country, will eventually be
    passed right on down to individuals; individuals such as
    yourself. This hasn't been about admonishing anyone and
    it hasn't been about issuing threats. This is part of
    the education you should have received in the government
    schools, but didn't. Class is now dismissed.

    Now, all that is financial, and might or not be relevant to the original post. But it DOES illustrate a few things about capitalism and the perils and pitfalls of a republic vs. another form of governance.
     
  4. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    What can you say , perfect explanation of the "capitalist" realities once you take the time to look farther than protest signs and slogans."...
    tack that up on the wall in the "commons" coffee house.
     
  5. RAYARTHART

    RAYARTHART Monkey+++

    All I can see is that the Government is taking over the existing businesses and all of us will end up as employed by a government that will own nearly all the businesses in this country within the next couple years. The government has already taken over most banks, WHAT IS NEXT? Having everyone carry a government I.D. card, having you restriced to a area that you can travel in with permission, Having your children taught what the government requires, Being told where and when you work at?
     
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    "government owns the means of production"= a definition of "socialism" in my old textbook.

    don'think that's in the constitution of our constitutional republic is it?.Can Anybody spell T-R-E-A-S-O-N ???
    Surely you'll accept a national i.d. to keep us "safe" from terrorists???? Who's gonna step up and keep us safe from the government???Don't answer that its a rhetorical question.
     
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I think a rhetorical question has no answer, or one that is obvious. Pretty clear which this is. :oops:
     
  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Correction -the banking system is owned by private investors, also known as the "banking elite", and not comprised of public investors, i.e. you and I. The government owns nothing. All property is collected into the hands of banks and "certificates" of ownership are issued to users; this is one of the goals of communism. The banking bailouts are simply a means to further increase the deficit and devalue the "currency" so much that it becomes completely worthless X trillionfold -this will usher in a "need" for reformation and the adoption of a unified currency for the U.S., Canada, and Mexico; owned by the very same banking collective and loaned at face value plus interest to each nation under a new international banking system to rival the Euro. Over time, the goal is to merge both into a single world currency with a massive, one world bank.
     
  9. RAYARTHART

    RAYARTHART Monkey+++

    yeah, and who owns those bankers?
     
  10. LowMan

    LowMan Monkey++

    No body owns them, they are the masters.

    Here's some quotes from some well known people about these bankers. Some are by the bankers themselves.

    Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws. — Mayer Amsched Rothchild

    Fifty men have run America, and that’s a high figure." — <cite>Joseph Kennedy, July 26th, l936 New York Times</cite>.

    We shall have world government whether or not you like it by conquest or consent. — <cite>James Warburg member Council on Foreign Relations speaking before Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950

    </cite>The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. — <cite>letter to Colonel House by Franklin D. Roosevelt, November 21st, l933

    </cite>The UN is but a long range, international banking apparatus nearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One World Revolutionaries, hungry for profit and power... The depression was the calculated ’shearing’ of the public by the World Money powers, triggered by the planned sudden shortage of supply of call money in the New York money market... The One World Government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. — <cite>Curtis Dall, from My Exploited Father-in-Law

    </cite>The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes. — <cite>Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952

    </cite>The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining super capitalism and Communism under the same tent; all under their control... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent. — <cite>Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976

    </cite>In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn’t such a great idea after all. — <cite>Strobe Talbott, Clinton’s Deputy Secretary of State, Time Magazine, July 20th, l992.

    </cite>Freedom—is the absence of the awareness of restraint. — <cite>David Rockefeller</cite>

    We shall have world government whether or not you like it by conquest or consent. — <cite>James Warburg member Council on Foreign Relations speaking before Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950

    </cite>I never thought the Federal Reserve System would prove such a failure. The country is in a state of irretrievable bankruptcy. — <cite>Senator Carter Glass 1983


    </cite><cite>
    </cite><cite>
    </cite>
     
  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    So if this is so well known (or at least openly admitted); Why haven't any folks put vaseline all over the u.n./cfr or touched its head with a hot matchstick until it backs out of America like the bloodsucking, disease ridden tic on America's butt that it is?
     
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