Another circular logic fail.

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by wideym, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. wideym

    wideym Monkey++

    Working in a gun shop is one of the most interesting jobs I've ever had. From having more loaded weapons pointed at me that I did in Iraq to meeting internet commandos in real life, but once again I met a logic failure.

    Customer: The goberment is spying on everybody, tracking what you buy thorough your cell phone, just waiting to catch you breaking some law to put you in a "re-education" camp (yes he used "air quotes").


    Customer: How about you add another twenty dollars to the total and we don't worry about the paperwork? I don't like the goberment knowing what I have.(While handing me his debit card while I handed him a 4473)

    Me: No thanks, but I will need your ID for the form.

    Why are people convinced the NSA is tracking their every move through electronic means, think they can hide transactions using electronic means? Or do they think I will risk losing my job, fines, or even prison for twenty dollars? Heck it's not even twenty dollars now that I think about it. Since it's on the machine, it;s taxed and we're charged 3% by the processing company. Even bribes aren't what they used to be.

    If there is a government list, if you bought more than two guns on paper, then you are probably on that list, so get over it.
  2. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    One may not be on their list if one fabricates 0ne's I say that????? :whistle:
    Ura-Ki and oldawg like this.
  3. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    your probably the 4th shop he pulled that routine on that day. you can't fish without a line in the water with a hook that has to have bait on. Never take anything for granted think of it as 99% chance of nothing and, there is always a chance it's something.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Yep....its like the kind of tantalising indirect question sometimes negotiated in a 'kerb crawler's' car....the wrong answer will get an appointment with a booking sgt somewhere at a convenient precinct station. :rolleyes:
    ochit likes this.
  5. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Did you ask him if he worked for ATF? (or is it BATFE now?)
    Sounds like he was trying to get you to violate the law so he could bust you for it.
  6. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Okay. Um, how about fifty buckeroos? :D :D
  7. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I dunno Chell, I think just being here in the tree gets you and I on more list than we can count. well, you may be able to count higher than I. You being down in OZ you shouldn't have to worry much' much closer to Sidney, Ohio than Sidney, OZ.:cautious:....And you don't really wear a feather boa and a codpiece-made-from-the-shell-of-an-endangered-species but instead black suits and cheap sunglasses? DANG!! That must be it!!! RATS! Now I'm on another list! [peep] [gone]
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Hm. That offer would have sent me to the phone to some kind of tip line.
    Asia-Off-Grid likes this.
  9. BenP

    BenP Monkey+ Site Supporter+

    That is suspicious, seems if he is that worried about it he would have a friend buy it for him.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  10. Darkwolf

    Darkwolf Monkey++

    I have worked in a gun store also. As soon as he would have said that I would have refused the sale.
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Around 99.5% of prohibited people who lie on the form 4473 to get a gun never have anything done to them.
    It says on the form lieing is punishable by 5 or 10 years in jail and $100,000s of fines.
    We're talking like 70,000 transactions are denied because the applicant is a prohibited person every year and for all but 200 to 300 people nothing ever happens to them.
    This is why we wont even consider more gun control to be allowed until current laws are enforced.
    Ura-Ki and Thunder5Ranch like this.
  12. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    As a former gun shop/gun range manager, I had quite a few of those characters walk into my shop. Most of them are truly paranoid, the rest which I had suspected of being under cover ATF agents doing what they could to get me to violate federal/state laws.

    You had a someone offer you only $20 to forego the paperwork!! I had an individual throw $500 cash on the counter sell to him without the 4473.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  13. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    The bigger the bribe the worse the danger. good reason to call the cops.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  14. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    I have to say, upon reading the original post in this thread, Randy Weaver immediately came to my mind.
    ochit, Ura-Ki and Thunder5Ranch like this.
  15. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    My local gun shop has to inventory and account for every weapon in the shop, even the customer's one left for repair. Now if you sell one to an idiot, no matter what the bribe may be, how do you handle the paper work on the one that is no longer in your inventory? Even if you solve that problem, setting yourself up for several different federal and state charges and the loss of your ability to run a gun shop. Now for $20 you are supposed to take a chance that the buyer isn't prohibited from owning a weapon, isn't planning to kill himself, his wife, etc or commit a crime, isn't a plant trying to set you up for illegal transfer of weapons, or part of a sting for some anti gun group, or a sting for BATF or the local police. I can't think of any one stupid enough to even suggest it to my friends at the gun shop. But then I have seen them try to sell legally purchased high dollar AR15's, 40 magazines still in the wrapper, and 1,000 rounds of match ammo, that they bought during some panic and paid a huge premium on and scream about being robbed when you offer them the present wholesale value of the guns and equipment, minus a 5 % restocking fee, which is what you have to do if you wish to say in business and pay your bills. It is even worse with the 3 year old high quality optics and night vision. The value is totally dependent on what some one that walks into your shop will pay and the odds are against you for that happening in the short run. When you say that you aren't really interested, they get even more annoyed. I have seen my friend refuse several decent sales as the individual just didn't seem right, note do not go into a gun shop with gang colors, out of state license ID, gang tats, etc and want to buy 3 cheap hi point pistols and want to pay for them with $100 bills. I don't care if he does pass the background check.
    chelloveck and Ura-Ki like this.
  16. natshare

    natshare Monkey+++

    Next time, have some fun, with this type of clown. Act like you're listening to a voice in your "ear piece". Then lean toward him, and say, "Can you repeat that, please? The microphone didn't pick it up!" ;)
  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Have to remember weaver only sold a normal shotgun. The dirty informant cut the barrel off the shot gun and told the ATF that weaver sold it to him like that.
    oldawg and Ura-Ki like this.
  18. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    The Gun shop I hang out at has been "shopped" about once a month by any number of agencies and others, I can smell a few clear across the county, so I'm always giving the heads up when one walks In. I have seen it all, from Straw purchasing to fake i.d. and probably heard every story at least twice! I have seen the cops show up about twice a month and remove a person in cuffs, I have had the local Leo's demand access to the stored 4473s and the bound books ( both illegal) with out a A.T.F. agent and a warrant, and pretty much every thing else, including a very pissed of F.B.I. agent who danced all sorts of access and I formation only to be told to go pound sand and get a proper warrant and be accompanied by the Sheriff his self when he came back so that as he attempted to violate so e rights, the Sheriff would be right there to tell him to go pound sand up his jacksy! Love that who, the owner dosnt take any crap from any body, and while his prices might be a little higher, the service is well worth it!
    Altoidfishfins and chelloveck like this.
  19. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    OH NO we must be in sync, exactly what popped in my head.

    There are a segment of society that are informants, they have no side but theirs they will rat anyone out. For them jail is like a toaster and they are a pop tart. Some are CI's for the big guys but are known to some locals they sell their merchandise where it does them the most good if they have competition they ( old slang ) drop a dime on them and are always trying to fit someone else with a rat fur coat. It has always amazed me as to how far and how much trouble and danger a person will place themselves in to avoid a honest job but like gambling it's addictive the testosterone and adrenaline is palpable they are an underworld triple agent and a few have made it to the big game selling hardware with the aid and cover of the big boys --- that is why I never liked a certain gyrine that stood up and raised his hand the other was hidden because in my thoughts it was bloody.
    Asia-Off-Grid likes this.
  20. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Most of these issues, I do NOT have, as there are only a dozen folks that live within a Hundred Square Miles of my place, and I know them ALL, because they get there Mail here.... I only sell to Family and KNOWN Folks... I still do ALL the NICS Stuff....and it is CASH UpFront, or "Take a Hike..." ATF hasn't been here in a very Long time... It just costs them to much to fly all the way out here, for just ONE Inspection that takes about 20 Minutes... Not a very productive Day, and it is an ALL DAY deal for them... Alaska doesn't have any State Issues, to worry about, so that makes this pretty straight forward...
    JLRhiner and Altoidfishfins like this.
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