Another School Shooting. Gun debate in 3, 2, 1.......

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Motomom34, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Once again another shooting. Currently this latest shooting is still fluid but we do know that an elementary school was involved. Children have been shot. I always ask myself why, why would anyone hurt a child? Then I start reading. I see the calls for gun control before the bleeding has even stopped. Allegedly this guy was a know felon in California. We all know that Cali has strict gun laws, we know felons cannot own guns. That does not matter because children have been shot.

    "The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything" Albert Einstein

    I question myself (someone who exercises their Second Amendment rights), have I done anything to stop these shootings. Is there anything I could do? I do not think allowing the government to confiscate all and every firearm is the solution but what as a citizen can I do to stop this evil? What as a country can we do to stop this madness?
  2. Meat

    Meat Monkey+++

    Isolation is the only solution that I see. Armed to the nutz when that’s not possible. [afro]
    Seepalaces likes this.
  3. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    This is insane, and so very sad!!!!!
    Why the children dammit!!!!

    How did gun control fail here in this bastion of disarmament? How it is all these laws failed to stop a felon? How is it that there was no security to protect these innocents? What we have is a categorical failure of the State to prevent any thing, and yet we have to have more laws because it shows we want to do something, but we cannot admit to the facts that not only does gun control NOT WORK, it makes a every citizen a potential victim, it also denies the root problem of all of this, mental health! The State has failed to address all these issues, and we have yet another shooting!
    So very sad, and shame on the State, shame, shame, shame!!!!

    Prayers to the loved ones lost and the families who will have to deal with This!
  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Solutions (in bold) I have read from gun owners on how to stop the killings:

    More people should carry concealed.
    Shooting took place at elementary school 5-12 year olds should not be carrying concealed

    Work together for decent gun legislation.
    What is decent gun legislation and how will that keep guns out of the hands of felons and gang bangers? Also- congress cannot move past the Russian issue, decent anything legislation is not going to happen.

    Open more state mental institutions?

    I do believe that pharmaceuticals have a hand in many of the mass shootings but mental institutions?

    Blame the shooter not the gun.
    I cannot even respond to this one.

    And of course this again….

    We need 1) gun safety reform & 2) mental health reform NOW. We can't keep letting bad policies result in children being shot

    What is gun safety reform? Can someone please explain what that is and how it would be achievable.
    Seepalaces likes this.
  5. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Actually, this is perfect case to show that gun laws don't work. It's textbook perfect!

    @Motomom34 "I question myself (someone who exercises their Second Amendment rights), have I done anything to stop these shootings."
    What WOULD have worked is if you were there, armed, and you blew this whacko's head off. That would have worked! End-of-story.

    "What as a country can we do to stop this madness?"
    Look to Israel and what they had to do. This country would change overnight if all citizens were armed - period.

    As far as mental health issues in this country - well - this has to be the one if not the most stressful countries I have ever lived. I came back to retire and relax, to enjoy myself in early retirement but they will NOT leave a person alone with their rules and regulations and taxes and laws...

    All I can say, if this government passes gun control revoking the 2nd then I am out of here. I just went through this medical insurance crap of damn-if-I-do, damn-if-I-don't, will be penalized, and I have had it with this government - notice I didn't say 'my' or 'our' government because if the snowflakes cannot accept a legally elected President then one grouchy old expat doesn't have to accept the government of the so-called 'Land of the Free.' Hell, the ONLY thing we got left in this country are our guns because they've turn the laws against us.
  6. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    How about a law that disallows democrats and liberals from possessing guns, seeing that they are the primary culprits in the issue?
  7. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

    it appears the shooter was goin around shootin semi-randomly, the shooter did not go to the school according to reports

    this aint quite a school shootin

    2 or more students at the school were wounded, perhaps by stray rounds
    Seepalaces, Ura-Ki and Gator 45/70 like this.
  8. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    More people should carry concealed.

    Work together for decent gun legislation.
    Agreed. This does not mean making it more difficult to exercise one's 2nd Amendment right, actually should mean to make it easier

    Open more state mental institutions?

    Bah! I'm not buying it. And, it is a very slippery slope concerning if a person is mentally stable or not...The left would have you believe that most gun owners are not stable

    Blame the shooter not the gun.

    Absolutely! However, I DO blame anyone there that watched children being shot and were not armed to defend them. That is where the blame should go and the sniffling buggers that impede them getting their firearms.

    We need 1) gun safety reform & 2) mental health reform NOW. We can't keep letting bad policies result in children being shot

    Gun Safety reform? What the hell is that? Sounds again, like some anti-gunner making things up. Anyone that knows how to use a gun knows gun safety. This yahoo didn't kill someone due to 'gun safety' he kill them because he wanted too and there was no one around to stop him. Mental Health reform? Sure, but like the old Irish saying, "When God wants to punish you he gives you what you asked for"...Be careful what you ask for because it is indeed a very slippery slope.
  9. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

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  10. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Lets address this from a few different viewpoints! First, GOD! GOD has given each and every one on this good green earth the gift of life, GOD also equippd us with the abilities to protect that gift of life, and put the responsiility of that self protection squarely in our individual hands! Secondly, we created a document in our great country that spells out those God given rights in plain simple English, and included 4 simple yet extraordinary words that are to solidify beyond all contestation our rights as granted by God "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" that removes all mans corruption of GOD's word!
    Second view point, man is also a creature of violence! Because of this, man needs to be able to protect him self against that tendency, this is a major point. Not only much each of us be able ( and allowed with out restriction) to protect ourselves, we must also recognise and address those amongst us that cannot control those urges, and we need to properly deal with those people by addressing the tendencies with any intervention including institutionalization to remove those deemed unsafe from society!
    Finally, we need to separate the means, methods, and tools of self protection from all discussion of mans rights, and we need to remove all restrictions to this means, methods, and tools!
    We need to address mental health issues and treatment and chemical abuse! We need to address the pharmaceutical industry and the medical commnity where so many of the issues should be properly dealt with, and we need to hold these industries accountable!
    Finally, we need to address the legal system, we need to address criminals with an eye to the full application of the law and the sentencing must be harsh, and fully served! We need to make prison a true punishment and remove all non God given rights!
    We need to hold our elected politicians fully responsible for adherence with our constiution and they need to be punished severey for any and all infringements of!!!
    We need to start punishing those politicians severely!
    We need to make our courts adhere to the constitution and to apply it to every case with out bias!
    Seepalaces, SB21, Motomom34 and 4 others like this.
  11. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    This country doesn't have the stomach for what is really needed.
    It's quite simple and would require only ONE firearm law.
    If you are found guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a crime, regardless of loss of life you are to be executed. One appeal could be granted and started the next day if so granted to not last longer than 30 days. Once that has been exhausted and you are found guilty you are executed within 24 hours period. No insanity pleas, no he/she's just a kid, no nothing. Take all the rest off the books and enforce the above and within 6 months you ain't gonna have no more shoot'em ups.
  12. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    In Israel the teachers go armed.
  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I nominate for the position of Senator, for the great State of XYZ, Senator @Ura-Ki !!!!!

    "If you are found guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a crime, regardless of loss of life you are to be executed."
    @Tully Mars I could not agree with you more. I have often said the same. The problem is they have this bull of 'let the punishment match the crime' which works in the favor of the criminal not the victim.
    oldman11, Seepalaces, Ura-Ki and 2 others like this.
  14. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Several have hit upon the failure of the system to afford a gruesome enough deterrent to gun crime, and I would like to suggest a return to public hanging. Televised, so that everyone can see just what someone who perpetrates this type of crime is looking at in their future. Commit a crime with a gun, go to jail, within 15 Days...Trial, then; Hemp Necktie!

    As the Pseudo-outraged celebs like to say, "Enough is Enough!"
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  15. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Agreed! Remove All gun control and restrictions, and punish the crime to the full extent of the law. Do it old school middle East, certain crimes result in the removal of a needed body part, usually the one you wipe your ass with, and this marks you for life as a felon, and felons missing a ass wiping hand cannot legally own a firearm, simple gun control! Beyond that, sex crime gets the offending organ removed, and all other serious crimes get the removal of life! Simple and rids us of a lot of jail space and judicial waistefullness! I like it!
    Seepalaces, Bandit99 and Tully Mars like this.
  16. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I am not sure if I changed my title to: "children at school hit by stray rounds" if it would be any better. Kids were shot. Children should not have to worry about getting shot while on recess. And that is my opinion.

    Kids were shot at school. Kids should not have guns. So is it the teachers responsibility? People have mentioned that Israeli teachers carry guns. But do they? We have all seen the picture of the "teacher" helping school kids. That picture is incorrect. Teachers in Israel are not carrying Israel.
    Are Israeli teachers armed?

    The article linked above is actually a good read because after discussing teachers, it goes on to say:
    Two types of people have guns in Israel: Soldiers and those with licenses. Mentally unstable people don’t have guns—and thus, don’t shoot people.~snip~ Losing a weapon will get you a jail sentence.~snip~Israel’s successful gun ownership laws both serve to make sure upstanding, brave and mentally sound citizens have access to guns, and that those who present even a minor threat are prevented from possessing one.

    Mentally stable, mentally sound. We all know there is a mental illness issue in this country. The medical professionals prescribe SSRI drugs liberally. So would people be willing to go through a mentality check in order to possess a gun?
    Seepalaces and Ura-Ki like this.
  17. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Seriously, Gun violence won't stop until either there are no more guns OR no more people.
    If it's the former, then they'll just start using something else like:
    Rocks and sticks, hammers, knives, screw drivers, awls, axes, hatchets, machetes, garrotes made of wire, shoe laces, string, cable and or rope, cars, IEDs, poison, golf balls off tall buildings,well guided space debris and maybe a nuke. By the way, this list isn't inclusive of all the ways we can kill each other.

    Maybe it's a people problem after all.
  18. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Im in no way suggesting kids be allowed to be armed, not am i advocating teachers armed as well, what I am convinced is that there needs to be armed security on school grounds and they need to be present when the children are outside! There are many schools that have a locked door policy, and in some schools I have visited, you must submit to an xray scan and or pat down before entry is granted! This is the reality of the world we live in, and it' saddening!
  19. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    in Isreal many of the Teachers ARE in the Military... Reservists, that can be called up, during a National Emergency, and therefor can be Armed during Daily Life, should they so choose... They do not lock up. their Small Arms in an Armory, like the Reservists in the USA do... Especially those Reservists that live near the Boarders, both North & South...
    Seepalaces, sec_monkey and Ura-Ki like this.
  20. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    And in Swizerland you are in the reserves until you reach a certain age, and you are supplied with a rifle, magazines, and ammo, and storage, and are required to train on a regularly scheduled bases! All this after compulsory service with the countries defence forces!
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