Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by marlas1too, May 31, 2016.

  1. marlas1too

    marlas1too Monkey+++

    it just makes me so mad when I see or hear that word.When I hear a so called Christian bad mouth or put down Jews it makes me mad--IF you are a Christian that hates Jews stop and think real hard what was Jesus--A JEW so in my thinking then you hate your own religion --I do not claim to be a Christian I'm a heathen I believe in a religion older than Christians BUT I have read lots of religious texts I try so very to not say anything against religions I do put down cults. I do know several Jews and I find nothing to hate them for.---sorry there I go again on my soap box at times I get wound up.may the great spirit protect you and yours all of you
    chelloveck, Motomom34 and UncleMorgan like this.
  2. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Anti whatever is usually a combination of xenophobia and blaming others for the negative outcomes of your own actions. As long as they aren't coming at me with guns or other evil intent I really don't have a bone to pick with them.
    Motomom34 and UncleMorgan like this.
  3. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Any Christian worth his salt know the scriptures and the things Jesus taught especially, well enough to be praying for the Jew not hating him, regardless of what he does.
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  4. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon Monkey+++

    Hi there, I am a non-denominational pastor but anchored in what would be called the Christian faith, with heavy ties in Native American, and Jewish Faith. That coming from a man that was raised a Mormon until I was about 17. At age 17-22 as part of my so call sabbatical of faith I went to every religion I could find and went to their services, yes even Native American cultures. What I found was after visiting all these " religions " is they all want and desire the same from a higher power, to be accepted and to be guided. There is a reason people look up or to their idols and say Mother, and Father when they speak. We know at birth our parents or those who raised us guided our life to adult hood from there religion, employment , military, and even LEO's found structure in living life to that point, but we know there is more so were does that more come from and why do we desire it so much ? Its in our DNA to have faith. Those that say they do not need it are lying to themselves as its part of you. No religion is not part of you I am not saying that, but seeking a great force in life you need just like you had your parents we want that in life and to guide us towards death. Those that are forcing themselves to strictly look at science are limiting themselves to the growth they need in their life. Even packs of wolves have faith the same exact faith you do in a higher power. They need that structure and guidance without it they are lost. Again not saying religion, I am saying faith in a higher power greater then you. Seems almost every mammal on the planet is cared for at birth and into adulthood and then after seeks the power of leadership in their lives. Structure and faith are built into us, the more we deny that of our selves and each other the more we are separated.
    Jesus was not a Christian and in fact he was against organized religion in a big way as he saw the corruption and lack of accountability.
    He believed that to speak with the higher power did not need anyone or help but needed faith and was done by the person not the religious sect . Jesus was Jewish but also did not agree with clergy having only access to God. He believed all men/women had free access all they had to do was seek him and you would find him. Organized religions are for people, not for Gods or a higher power. You need them, they surely do not need you. So we organize and charge tithing and most religion force payment of some kind so you can speak with your God. I see people go to Church on the weekends or what have you, the same people whom will lie cheat and steal during the week come to church and pray, they do it in a public spectacle that no God needs.
    If that is your life and choice so be it, but if you do it to be with your God, well he's always there and your singing and praising doesn't and tithing does not put you at the top of the prayer line. God is not a genie, no God that any religion has is a genie like entity yet by faith and built in DNA we seek guidance to solution from a power greater them us.God to you could be Jesus, a tree or the Sun, or any other form of God you have but all people on this planet look to their God for the same reason you look to yours, for guidance and faith in living a life with pain struggle and heartache, so it was at birth and is why we need it in life until and in some cases after death.

    Hating other religions, is really hating your own ability to have faith and seek guidance. In all religions there is evil and how it develops can be seen in every imaginable way. From cults to religion what drives the human mind and soul is faith and the seeking of approval and guidance. For me is there a God, yes most definitely, is he the way everyone sees their God, probably not. But its who we are its what we seek and need to be human.

    I didn't write this to offend anyone as depending how deep in your own religion you are anchored, you may find this offensive.
    It was meant to for me to state the obvious relationship we all seek whether in private or by religion is to be accepted, cared for and guided.
  5. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    I don't usually get into religious discussions, but I'm pretty sure Jesus was very much in favor of cutting out the middle-man.

    In the first place, if God talks to you, you shouldn't need an interpreter. And if you can't hear that "still, small, voice", I'm sure he can crank it up a little louder.

    (e.g.: God: Noah!)

    And in the second place, when people start sayin' God told them to tell you what to do, they're usually lying.

    The way I see if, if God doesn't tell you to do something specific, you're probably doing pretty much everything he wanted you to do already. And if He doesn't tell you to NOT do something, either everything you're doing is ok by Him or you're getting a chance to learn from your mistakes.
  6. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Whenever people start talking to me about their religion, I just tell them that'll I'll chat with my buddy Jesus about it this evening over a beer and get back to them. I don't know why people get so offended because me and my neighbor Jesus have a beer and shoot the shiite every night after work. Are they offended by the beer...or because I consort with Mexicans?
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I am not a Christian nor an anti-Semite, but after being married to a Jewish girl for a number of years, I do have an insight into them that makes cautious around them. I do believe that they influence our monetary system and geo-political position in ways that are not necessarily in our best interests as a free nation.
    Minuteman likes this.
  8. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I don;t enjoy religion bashing in general but I am interested in discussions of theology and practices. We are all elevated by learning. That said, it is a hot button topic that has to be approached and read without hatred but with a honest desire to discover new things about other cultures and practices.
    chelloveck, kellory, BTPost and 2 others like this.
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    So far, this has been a good start to a possibly good discussion. Should it move to F&R?
    chelloveck, Minuteman, BTPost and 2 others like this.
  10. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Good call ghrit
  11. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon Monkey+++

    There is no reason , people should not be able to discuss topics like this. I really enjoy it and never take offense unless you get to name calling. I mean it not like we are talking about taking gun rights way, now that I get temper with.
    Its the same with Race discussions wow people get piled up hot headed over that as well. I know there are certain geographic places that make religion and race and issue. I am not saying " can't we all just get along " as that is a pipe dream that only dances in the heads of Liberal Progressives. The reality is the world is full of hate, evil, everyone wants what you have and many will kill to get it.
    But religion or the right and ability to believe in a higher power is free. No matter how suppressed one is and no matter what earthly belonging you take away, you can't take away faith and the ability to look to a higher power. Your body can be enslaved but your mind is only enslaved with your willingness.
    Minuteman likes this.
  12. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I say yes. Then if it devolves it can be moved back. But the potential for some good discussion is there.
  13. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    First, Halito Atek (hello sister), or more common Yatahe (Waz up!!)

    Before we can have a discussion on this subject we have to clarify exactly what it is we are discussing. The terms Anti-Semite, Israel, and Jew are some of the most misused and misunderstood terms in religion. Especially in the modern world.

    So what is Antisemitism? Anti of course meaning against. Against who? Semites. What is a Semite? A Semite is any and all blood descendants of Noah's son Shem. From whence came a man named Jacob whom God changed his name to Israel. He had 12 sons who over time grew into the twelve tribes that comprised the nation of Israel, a nation as in group of people with similar ancestry. One tribe of which was the tribe of Judah.

    So who are Jews? The nation of Israel had a major division and split into two separate nations. The tribe of Judah along with the very small tribe of Benjamin and their contingent of Levite priests formed the nation of Judah. The members of this nation were sometimes referred to as Jews, but more commonly, and correctly as Judahites.

    Christ was a Jew. Yes and no. He was a descendant of Shem, a Semite. He was an Israelite born into the tribe of Judah. He lived in the nation of Judah so was correctly called a Judahite. But was he a Jew?

    Again definition means everything. The common, modern reference to a Jew means someone who practices the religion of Judaism. The religion of the Israelites was Hebrewism, or more concise would be Yahwism. Judaism was the religion that came to be while the Judahite nation was in captivity in Babylon for 70 years and merged the traditional Yahwism with the pagan Babylonian religion which resulted in what we know as Judaism. Or more correctly as Talmudic Judaism. It was during this time that the Talmud, which is the basis for the faith and practices of Judaism, was written. So no, Christ was never a "Jew", he was an Israelite of the tribe of Judah that practiced the religion of Yahwism.

    So what of modern Israel and Jews? The "nation" of Israel that exists today was founded by proclamation of the United Nations in 1947. It was to be a homeland for the persecuted "Jewry" of Europe after WWll.

    Who were these Jews? They were not the descendants of the biblical nation of Judah. They were called Eastern Jewry due to the fact that they came from Eastern Europe. They are made up of different tribes that comprised the great Khazar Empire. This empire was under constant pressures from the Eastern Orthodox church in Constantinople on one side and the Islamic Caliphate in Baghdad from the other. The Kagan (king/emperor) decided to take the middle ground and converted his entire population to Judaism. It was a strategy that ultimately failed to save his empire and eventually the Islamic armies along with the Viking Rus raiders from the north drove them from their homeland. They were pushed to the west where they settled by tribe and eventually became what we know as Eastern European countries. The land of the Bulgars, The Huns, The Pols became Bulgaria, Hungary and Poland. They continued to practice their adopted religion of Judaism. It is these Jews that pushed into Europe, that were persecuted in every major European country, Spain drove them out in 1100 something, France, England, they all persecuted and drove them out. Germany was the last European nation to attempt to rid itself of them. Now I am certainly not condoning those actions, merely citing history.

    So today when someone says the "Jews" they are referring to the people who inhabit the nation they call Israel in the Middle East. A people with no blood ties, no ancestral ties to the ancient Judahite people. So therefore are not descendants of Shem and cannot be identified correctly as Semites.

    So when we accuse someone of being Antisemitic it is really a misnomer as there is no such thing. The group that most who are labeled such are Anti or against are Zionists.

    What is a Zionist? The Zionist movement arose among Eastern Jewry and sought to establish, by any means, a "Jewish" state and who worked to destabilize governments, to foment rebellions and to infiltrate many European institutions and control them. It was these actions that caused the nations to persecute them and drive them out of their countries. They are accused of, rightly or wrongly, but the evidence is substantial, of instigating and promoting the destruction of the European Monarchies and of instigating the Bolshevik revolution in Russia and overthrowing the Czar.

    They continue today to infiltrate most of the worlds banking systems and are prominent in media and news outlets. Thus controlling much of the image they want to project to those who do not know the truth, the history.

    These are the "Jews" that many people oppose and a lot of people are Anti or against. But anyone who makes a negative comment about them is labeled with this fictional "Antisemite" tag.

    I'll end this with just a few facts to ponder.

    When Winston Churchill found out that the Zionists in Palestine intended to name their new homeland "Israel" he was livid. He called it blasphemy.

    Dwight Eisenhower refused to recognize the new nation for 2 years until American Zionists donated 2 million dollars to his reelection campaign.

    Benjamin Netanyahu is the first prime minister of Israel to be born there. His parents emigrated from Poland.

    Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael a descendant of Shem so are by definition Semite.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
    BTPost likes this.
  14. Tempstar

    Tempstar Old and crochety Site Supporter+

    Read the Torah. After seeing how it condones cheating and lying to non Jews, calls all non Jews cattle to be used, and plenty of other hatred for non Jews, then form an opinion. I don't hate anyone, but rather choose not to associate.
    Minuteman likes this.
  15. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    I prefer to judge people on the content of their character, not the rhetoric of their religion.
    BTPost likes this.
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