Aramaic Peshitta TaNaKh vs Hebrew Masoretic TaNaKh

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by The Texas RAT, Oct 26, 2012.


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  1. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey

    The Masoretic texts are not only the youngest of all the ancient Old Testament Texts but they are the least reliable as well. Attached are PDFs which demonstrate the Hebrew Masoretic's texts should be the last texts we should base a translation of the Scriptures from. The readings of the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls, Samaritan Torah, Greek Septuagint TaNaKh, and Aramaic Peshitta TaNaKh in unison testafy against the perverted Masoretic renderings. Don't just take my word for it, the Masorete scribes within their own footnotes said that they literally changed (i.e. - monkeyed with) the text in hundreds of places!

    Please read PDFs before commenting!
    Whoso answers a word before he hears a cause, it is folly and reproach to him.
    {Proverbs 18:13}

    As for the intent of this thread, I am but simply trying to share knowledge with my brothers and sisters in this creation based on real evidence so that they can put that knowledge to good use. I assure you my intentions are pure and that I prophet not money wise by anyone buying a Bible translation in which I encourage people to get and study. I am a soldier of The Anointed One doing service to Him by trying to help get His and His Father's truths out to the masses. I was raised on the KJV Bible wherewith it's OT is based from the Masoretic text, but in my studies I have found that they are not as pure a rendition of the original Scripture writings as the Aramaic Pe$hitta is. Mind you I do not think for one minute that the copies of the Aramaic Pe$hitta are the original pen Scriptures by the ancient prophets but they are definitely more faithful to them as the evidence clearly shows.

    The point I am trying to convey is that we should be studying the Scriptures from a Text based closest to the original Scriptures and not by ones wherewith their translators had and agenda. The Masoretes changed Scripture verse to hide the fact that Yehoshuah [commonly referred to as Jesus] was The Anointed One prophesied in the Scriptures. They even throw away whole Books of Scripture to this reach this end. But if y'all around here are as adamant about the Geneva Bible then y'all would know that we should have the Books called the Apocrypha belong in our Bibles as full fledged Scripture, and not hidden or thrown out all together. The Masoretes do not have the Apocrypha Books in their canon like the Geneva translator understood they should be
    .

    And remember -
    Wisdom never lies inked to the pages coddled by a book
    but rather at rest supply about the inside of open minds
    that render the confounds thereof (The Texas R.A.T. ~ 2000AD)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey

    Online English translation of the first 5 Books (i.e.-The Torah) of Moshay can be found at the following website:
    The Holy Peshitta
    of the
    Assembly of Jerusalem



    An online English translation of the whole Peshitta Tanakh (Old Testament) can be found at:


    and also go to:
    Aramaic Peshitta .com and click on Lamsa Bible

    For a printed English translation of the whole Peshitta Tanakh (Old Testament) you can go to Amazon.com and inter into the search box -
    Holy Bible: From the Ancient Eastern Text
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    This is dangerous ground, even for me. I have spent many hours reading the Dead Sea scrolls (and researching what has been censored), missing testaments, and even took up some Hebrew. The fact remains that there is no direct translation from Aramaic to English. Some meaning is always lost --and one author's perspective may not be the same as the translator's. On top of this, we can account for Nicaea and the modern (KJ) Bible or the Geneva Bible and the traditional beliefs of millions, and I do not see any turn from the ways of the present. Nevertheless, sometimes it is best to offer a proposition and let the chips fall as they may.

    I will go over your linked texts and compare them with the historical data I have collected and perhaps, if I have time and the inclination, I will respond further.

    ALSO -- Yes, censors are annoying, but some Monkey's here have young family, so it's generally thought of as useful.

    We also take pride in this forum --many of the members here have devoted countless hours to making it a hospitable "e-place", and appreciate it the same as our own families. I know what you mean, no harm-no foul.
     
  4. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey

    Since when was exposing truth dangerous ground? Normally, people with something they wish to keep hidden say things like that


    If there is no direct translation from Aramaic to English then by this way of thinking there is no direct translation from Hebrew to English much less Greek to English. This is not a valid argument!


    Again it can be said the same for all English translations based off of the faulty Masoretic texts with the added problems due to their known mistranslations to start with!!! To use better Texts can only result in better translations. And as far as there being differences of opinions as to what the Aramaic Texts reads, it can not be any worse than the mirids of translations we have based of of the faulty Masoretic texts as the perversions based off of the Masorete's diliberate mistranslations will be done away with.


    "All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed,
    second it is violently opposed,
    and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
    -- Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860


    "A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic." -- Dresden James

    The TRUTH is stranger than fiction
    only because we have been indoctrinated with a lie.


    And:

    When a man or woman is honestly mistaken and hears the truth,
    they will either quit being mistaken, or they will cease to be honest.


    Anyway, if you think this post will raise eyebrows what about one on "The First Century Assembly and the Great Apostasy[falling away] that has to come first before the return of The Anointed One"? "Or will the true Lucifer please stand-up?" Actually while this post is controversial indeed, there are other truths that would make demons shrill to try and keep people from coming to these truths!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  5. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    So you come in here and call us all ignorant right away? Not a good thing to do. Didn't your mom ever teach you that it is easier to catch flies with honey rather than vinegar? Some of us might have been interested in reading what you had to say but you subsequent insult is a major turnoff.
     
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  6. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    When I see someone....particularly a someone of apparent religiosity, claiming to be proclaiming "the truth", (and by inference...the exclusivity of this truth), I wonder about the objectivity of their faith claims. I have no real problems in people riding their hobbyhorse around the faith and religion forum....lord knows, I give my hobbyhorse a run through the gauntlet here from time to time, but I find it worthwhile reminding myself that nothing here ought be taken too seriously.

    I doubt it was a human censor, but an algorithmic filter that takes exception to specific letter combinations, without taking into account their context. Perhaps if you had used a bit of ingenuity, you could have fooled the dumb filter with Pe$h!tta, but I guess the diabolical one perhaps favours his own rather than the self righteous.

    HHMMM....sounds like an argument similar to criticisms of the Vulgate version of the Bible translated from ancient Greek into Latin.
    In both cases, whether read in the original languages, or in the translated languages.....the texts of themselves offer no validation that the myths and legends described therein, are anything more than the myths and legends of a particular ethnic group wandering around Babylon, Egypt and what became the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah
     
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  7. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Myths, legends, roaming around Jerusalem--These folks had a well documented society with great cities. Only part of Genesis and portions of the books of history/law come from a time prior to written recording. To call this people anything less than industrious reeks of a personal bias.
     
  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I guess it depends upon who is documenting the history.....it strikes me that the Judaic account of their history is more than a little self serving, and in that sense they have been very industrious indeed. I don't disagree that there were great cities in the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judah....but just as modern day myths and legends are apt to be set in cities that actually exist in history, the existence of the cities in and of themselves don't validate the myths and legends. Nobody would suggest that the myths and legends (and the gods that inhabited them) of the Illiad and The Odyssy were validated by the excavation of Troy by Calvert and Schliemann et al.
     
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  9. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I, for one, am not going to read those pdfs absent a good and compelling reason to do so other than your "request" to read them before commenting. What is your intent with this thread?
     
  10. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey

    ghrit, the reason I encourage people to read the PDFs first is to cut down on the vain rantings defending an idea based on no knowledge but rather pure speculation and conjecture thereof. Such as the fanciful dialogues of Brokor and chellooveck so hoopla-ty put hereinabove. They not the first one did address any of the issues within the PDFs based upon textural evidence between the Ancient writings of Scripture. Yet they both felt that the admonition of Proverbs 18:13 did not apply to them as they waxed so elegantly amidst their folly. Tisk tisk.

    The reason I added the PDFs is because the word processor in most forums usually are limited and do not allow me to present the information in a manner I can by having them made up in better word processors and then attaching them as PDFs so that the format stays intact no matter whom wishes to read them over. Plus even if the site word processor is up to snuff they normally do not retain the format in which I have already got the information structured.

    As for the intent of this thread, I am but simply trying to share knowledge with my brothers and sisters in this creation based on real evidence so that they can put that knowledge to good use. I assure you my intentions are pure and that I prophet not money wise by anyone buying a Bible translation in which I encourage people to get and study. I am a soldier of The Anointed One doing service to Him by trying to help get His and His Father's truths out to the masses. I was raised on the KJV Bible wherewith it's OT is based from the Masoretic text, but in my studies I have found that they are not as pure a rendition of the original Scripture writings as the Aramaic Pe$hitta is. Mind you I do not think for one minute that the copies of the Aramaic Pe$hitta are the original pen Scriptures by the ancient prophets but they are definitely more faithful to them as the evidence clearly shows.

    The point I am trying to convey is that we should be studying the Scriptures from a Text based closest to the original Scriptures and not by ones wherewith their translators had and agenda. The Masoretes changed Scripture verse to hide the fact that Yehoshuah [commonly referred to as Jesus] was The Anointed One prophesied in the Scriptures. They even throw away whole Books of Scripture to this reach this end. But if y'all around here are as adamant about the Geneva Bible then y'all would know that we should have the Books called the Apocrypha belong in our Bibles as full fledged Scripture, and not hidden or thrown out all together. The Masoretes do not have the Apocrypha Books in their canon like the Geneva translator understood they should be.

    Anyway if you wish to learn about the reason the Masorete scribes left the Apocrypha out of their canon and want to know which verses they monkeyed with to try and hide the fact Yehoshuah was/is The Anointed One you will have to read the PDF. Also to gain an understanding why either the Aramaic Pe$hitta TaNakh or even the Greek Septuagint Tanakh for that matter is what we should be basing our English translations from in order to be better informed as to what YHWH has written us in the Greatest Love Letter ever written.
     
  11. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey

    Owe, Y'all taking this too personal, I was talking about a computer program - not real people, but I admit after all the negative feed back that I could/should have put it in a different way. So I apologize and will go back and edit it so as not to be thought to be standing upon my own dunghill.

    mysterymet, just this hillbilly lacking social edicates is all. Hopefully y'all's rebukes in this matter will help me in the future. And if you can see you way around my insensitivity and realise I meant no offense to start with, even though I am starting to see, y'all's point, there is some golden nuggets in the PDFs.

    Again I apologize for my ignorance and I will try not to make a habit of such. Please accept my apology. And thank you for taking the time to rebuke me, I needed that!
     
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  12. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey


    If I would have used the $ and the ! in the word Peshitta for the recommended websites some people with less wits, say someone like me, might have not been able to figure out how to decipher the confuzzled mess.

    Case and point this make to me no sense as it would seem to me that the self-righteous would be his own whereby negating any ruthers towhich one might be perhapsing towards, or is it just me and my third grade edumacation keeping me from reaching the goal?
     
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Works for me. It is possible that you'll find someone on SM willing to engage you with a discussion. Good luck.
     
  14. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I was nodding along with you, while reading your first paragraph; but I had to stop nodding when you claimed to have the real "truth." I glanced through the PDFs you included. I'm familiar with most of the information and arguments contained therein. As with other religious claims, one finds some facts, some wisdom, and a lot of hyperbole.

    The problem with offering "the truth" of any revealed religion, is that a revealed truth is a personal truth. It is not necessarily transferable. I may have a religious experience and, from it, develop my own personal truth, but it doesn't mean that you should totally redesign your own view of religion because of my experience.

    Any omnipotent, omniscient creator who wished to convey "the truth" surely would be able to end the argument, and provide the truth to all of his creations. If reflexes and emotions can be genetically encoded in us at birth, why cannot the truth be so encoded? And perhaps it is. Perhaps all of these claims of revealed religions actually obscure the innate sense of the truth about our creator that has been within each of us all along. Perhaps our internal divine spark is being overwhelmed by the glare of the supposed revealed truths of others. Maybe the Quakers were onto something, maybe if we just shut up with our pontificating and sat quietly, we could hear the actual voice of God; instead of the clamor of man.

    The Masoretic texts are indeed flawed, because they are the renderings of man; but all other religious texts are similarly flawed, because they too are the renderings of man. Discerning "the truth" about the creator from the writings of man is about like eating greased M&Ms with chopsticks.
     
  15. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I very much agree with Tulianr's comments above, in that Revealed Truth, in my world, is for the Individual who receives it, and may, or may not, be "Truth" for any other individual, as each individual has different outlooks, perspectives, and levels of understanding. I find that when one receives information, any information, from another Individual, it behoves the receptor to do their "Due Diligence" and confirm that Information for themselves, BEFORE entering, said information, into ones Personal Truth Database. When it comes to information concerning ones GOD, any new information should, and must, be confirmed by Personal Revelation, from ones GOD, or that individual leaves their Personal Truth Database, open to infiltration by bogus, or tainted, truths, that then can lead that individual away from their GOD. I never swallow such information, "Hook, Line, and Sinker" right off, without confirmation that comes direct to my Spirit, and Soul, from my GOD. Way to many Evil Entities, spouting "Their Truths" to infiltrate the souls of Men (and women) with tainted Agendas, to do otherwise. My belief, YMMV.....
     
    tulianr likes this.
  16. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey

    BTPost, it sounds to me by your own words that you plain on reading the information in the PDFs to confirm or deny the validity thereof(?). Just saying that just saying don't always cut the mustard.
     
  17. The Texas RAT

    The Texas RAT Monkey

    I said real evidence, big difference.

    Again I have presented evidence not claims. Truly if you read the PDF address the issues within them based on conflicting evidence instead of hamming it up to belittle me so that you can feel good about yourself for not having studied the issue or because you have no valid argument but for whatever reason felt that you had to talk down this post. If you are well familiar with the issues already then bring up a valid point based from some textural evidence.

    No where in any thing I posted or in the PDFs was I ranting on how I had an experience and therefor I had divine revelation y'all need to know. I present hard evidence and facts. These facts stand as truth, and these the words themselve, without me even attesting to them. I am merely showing the evidence for y'all to make up you own minds.

    Again my point exactly and He does/did but just not in the Masorete text.

    Sounds like your starting to get somewhere

    Bingo, if only you could/would take you own advice perhaps you might would here him encourage you to study this instead of - how did you put it - pontificating(?).

    Finally something on point here. Yes I am as sure as you are that even the Aramaic Peshitta TaNaKh has it problems as well as the LXX and the Dead Sea Scroll, but the funny thing is is that they agree with one another where the Masorete scribes in their footnotes claim they changed things and guess what their stuff does not agree with the other 3 witnesses. But even the Masorete text retained the verse that say every matter must be attested to by two or three witnesses. Well the Aramaic TaNaKh, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Greek Septuagint agree while the Masoretic texts stand alone. So good point but try applying that line of thinking to the presidential elections -if all presidents are men and they are all flawed should we just stick with the present one even if it could be proven that there is a better candidate that would serve our purpose better? That is to lead us unto truths of The Creator.

    Maybe you might change your mind on this one if you just gave the other text a far run, instead of looking at them as if they were the Masorete Text.
     
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I fear that we will soon see rhetorical questions in this thread.
    From wiki - "Often a rhetorical question is intended as a challenge, with the implication that the question is difficult or impossible to answer. Thus the question functions as a negative assertion."
    Use care --
     
  19. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Nope, I likely will NOT be reading your stuff, as I am quite solidified, in my understanding, of My Personal Relationship with my GOD.... My comments above are just My Personal reflections on "How one chooses to deal with their GOD, and their Personal Relationship, with such information about their GOD, that does not come directly from their GOD.... It is up to each Individual to decide how that relationship works. Some choose to let other Humans get between themselves, and their GOD, and be the Go-Between, and Intercessor, with their GOD. I choose never to let another Human, get between Me and my GOD, and I think ANYONE who chooses to let others do their thinking, in such matters, for them, is deluding themselves, and open for MASSIVE Exploitation, by Evil Doers, with their own Power Usurping Agendas..... My beliefs.... YBMV....
     
  20. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Well, I did at least take the time to look at the material that you presented; and, from the attitude you are displaying, that was apparently giving you too much consideration. You seem to want to lecture and attack, rather than discuss. A discussion involves at least two different view points. You'll find most of the folks here are pretty free thinkers, and not open to being preached to. If you want to discuss, I'll discuss. If you want to rant, I am not your audience.
     
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