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Are All Telephone Calls Recorded?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Silversnake, May 5, 2013.

  1. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

  2. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    No, not every call in the USA can be recorded in real time, there isn't enough bandwidth and infurstructue to do that, not even 10% of the calls, especially on Mothers Day or a like Holiday. It is possible to monitor ALL overseas traffic, but just barely, so instead, what they do , is use a High Value Targeting, to whittle it down to a manageable amount, and then use Hot Word Tagging on those calls to bring them to human attention. The Utah DataCenter will increase that capability by an order of Magnitude, but that still does begin to reach 100%....
  3. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

    Should I be reading that that once the Utah center is operational, they may be able to achieve 100% of all calls?
  4. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    No not 100%, more like 100% of the Targeted Calls from Targeted numbers, on Overseas calls, and less than 25% of non-overseas calls... Can you even try to imagine that EVERY Phonecall , across town in every city in the USA, How much bandwidth that would require 24/7/365, plus ALL the IP Telco calls, PLUS All the Internet eMail, which is 75% Spam, NOW, PLUS VPN, SSL, and Tunneling... Plus all the Web browsing...that is just the beginning...
    Mountainman likes this.
  5. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    At the risk of being chided for alluding to past real world experience, from someone who spent many years intercepting and recording voice communications, the answer is no. BT is absolutely correct, and I think he may be being overly generous even in his estimation of the amount of traffic which can be recorded and stored.

    You also have to consider the amount of manpower required to do anything with all of that data. That is the true limiting factor. Just recording it is one thing, processing it is another problem entirely. A computer program can only do so much. At the end of the day, a person has to painstakingly go through those comms, word by word, in order to do anything with the intelligence contained within.

    I used to supervise a section of a dozen intercept operators. We were tasked with monitoring the communications being carried by three dozen different microwave towers. Each tower had multiple feeds. Each feed carried a telecommunications system consisting of from sixty to over a thousand phone lines. Even with Dialed Number Recognition (DNR) computerization, which helped to narrow down our search, focusing our efforts on known phone numbers of interest, the task was herculean. It was "catch-as-catch-can."

    Once you attract the attention of national level organizations, with the resources at their disposal, they can turn your life inside out. Until you do attract such attention though, you're safe in the static.
  6. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    I for one appreciate your technical insight @tulianr - keep up the great responses to these type of post!!
  7. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    I respectfully disagree.
    100% of all calls are recorded and have been for decades, there is ample bandwidth, including "dark fiber" for future expansion.
    I absolutely believe you tulianr...

    I'm sure it's painstakingly expensive to staff and intercept targeted calls with a goal of finding something admissible in court. I think you're compartmentalized though and probably only see what you need to see.

    ACTA, CISPA, SOPA, CETA ETC are constantly trying to slip in "data rentention" (for both Telecom and Internet) into new cyber-sec laws. If they can't get it with existing copyright law they'll secretly pass it though foreign "trade agreements" and then demand domestic law needs to change to stay in line with our "World Wide Trading Partners". Failing that, they'll just allow or create so many security breaches that the people will demand that the government spys on them.
    Michael Geist - Your Information is Not Secure: Thousands of Government Privacy Breaches Point to Need for Reform

    Do you think your privacy is safe?
    It's not.
  8. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Do not know if they can or cannot--point is clear however that if they want you can be targeted--as are many ex military, Christian, conservatives. We are potential domestic terrorists according to the attorney general's definition. Also the head muzzie has called us bitter clingers. Personally am quite proud to be in such a category.
    oldawg and Motomom34 like this.
  9. Gray Wolf

    Gray Wolf Monkey+++

    I've got news for ya. A couple of times when I got my phone bill, there were some long distance calls that I disputed. They played back portions of the calls and I recognized my own voice. This was over 15 years ago, and technology is generations beyond that now. And if you don't believe that the phone companies will readily make that info available to whatever gov agencies want it, I've got a big bridge I'll sell you cheap!
  10. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    Just another reminder to be careful what you say[phone]. Always.
  11. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    Exactly. As more teleco's go 100% digital it gets easier and faster. Long gone are the days of getting a warrant signed & calling up Ma Bell and asking for a tap that has to be either manned 24/7 or paying some mook to sit and listen to hours/days of tape. They are legislating in LEO access under the flimsiest of pretense. They will eventually gain carte blanche legal access. Everything is handled in software & it's just a matter of checking the right boxes. Thousands of minutes of digital voice data can be analyzed for any number of suspicious metrics in minutes. Not sure if the digital exchanges are 100% recorded yet but in the not too distant future they will be. Storage is cheap and getting cheaper. Bandwidth concerns dictated by the old way of eavesdropping are moot now. Just don't be the nail that sticks up furthest because you don't want their attention to be focused on you. Whether you've got anything to hide or not. Just being in their path can often be fatal.

    But as in everything, just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done. So they manufacture justification...and indoctrinate the sheep to adopt their language and outlook. They will get their way. The police chief actually called Gilkerson (suicide by cop incident in Middlefield, OH if you haven't heard yet) a 'terrorist' though he did nothing to fit the definition according to the definition right from the National Institute of Justice's web site.

    Title 22 of the U.S. Code, Section 2656f(d) defines terrorism as “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.

    They drive the conversation and co-opt the language to paint the world view they want adopted and that label will be all the sheep need to cower in phear & point their finger at their neighbor/co-worker/family member and 'If you see something, say something'. Truly pathetic state of being if you ask me...but you didn't. :rolleyes:

    Mindgrinder likes this.
  12. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    Maybe this will get rid of spam... and oh I read somewhere about PGP apps... Just saying...
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    There isn't enough total Bandwidth on this Planet, to backchannel ALL the US Telco 1's and Zero's to any, of the number of Letters Agencies, in the USA. Never has been, and Never will be, and anyone who thinks so, has had his Brain Fried by to many Alien Beams. The numbers just do NOT add up, and can never add up. Most folks have never heard of an OC92 Fiber Link, let alone an OC128 Fiber Link, and there are literally dozens of these that cross this country, in every direction, with more being connected every year. ALL these are Domestic Fiber and do NOT include any calls that do NOT leave your Local Exchange, or any Calls that do NOT leave your Area Code Master Switch. These may, or may NOT be carrying Private Frame Relay Traffic, and may, or may NOT have Cellular Voice bandwidth on them as well. Basically, these days , there ARE no Analog Voice Circuits, in the First, and Second, World Countries, as they are a waste of Bandwidth, compared to what can be stuffed, and crammed, down a Digital Circuit. It is ALL 1's and 0's of different varieties, but still 1's and 0's. There are NO Cellular Links, that are not Digital, simply because anything Analog is way to Bandwidth Wasteful, both from the Cell Towers to your Phone, and the Cell Tower back to the Master Cell Controller, and from there to the Master Area Code Switch for that Cellular Controller. Most folks can't even imagine what it takes to route a medium sized Call Center to Bangladesh, or India, in bandwidth. If I was going to hid some super secret traffic, going overseas, I would hide it in one of the Thousands of Call Center ReRoutes leaving the USA to such a place, and then pick it off somewhere in Hong Kong, or Singapore, and reRoute it from their via some other nondescript Corporate Frame Relay link to Egypt, Saudi, or even Syria, and then put it on the local Exchange from there. This isn't Rocket Science, but you have to have actually been in the BIZ, to know how this stuff works, and where to hide things that you do NOT want intercepted. Anything that goes over RF, can be looked at, if you have enough equipment in your Rack. It is VERY VERY hard to tap an OC128 Fiber, if you do NOT have access to a Link End, without leaving a trace. Back in the Day, before fiber, it wasn't all that hard, and WE, the USA, did it to our enemies, AND Friends, routinely, using Subs, and Sniffers placed near their UnderSea Cables. Fiber doesn't give of any Traceable information, outside the Fiber Strand itself, and putting a Tap on Strand requires you to Break the Strand, and that sets off Alarms all over the world, and is Noticed, immediately. ...... and I am sure Tulinar, also knows this as well....
  14. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    NO WAY!
    This is SURRENDER!!!
  15. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    If your area has had HD analog tiers reclaimed, (all digital cable) there is more bandwidth than you can imagine available to spy on you. (Docsis 3 channel bonding) There always has been enough bandwidth but up until 2000 there was a lack of space to store it. That has long since been fixed. How much space does an hour long phone call really take up in a compressed format? Diddly.
    You are old BT. Teach your grandkids all you can aboot the old days...but today we live in a digital new world order where social media spawns revolution and the powers that be are jousting for control of your 1's and 0's.

    On a side note - we give every customer at my ISP 10x email addresses with 1gb storage. 1 of these email addys is MORE than enough space to store EVERY SINGLE CALL YOU MAKE FOR A YEAR AND THEN SOME in highly compressed format....

    Some of these new laws/trade agreement call for ISPs to retain ALL your data traffic, encrypted or not for 6 MONTHS.....
    They have the capacity.

    Cruisin Sloth likes this.
  16. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

  17. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Teddy wasn't being timid. He meant speak calmly and clearly, be reasonable, but it they just don't listen....wack 'em!
    BTPost and Yard Dart like this.
  19. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    I didn't say anything about the alphabets actually bringing all the calls back to themselves live. They definitely don't have their own physical copper/fiber infrastructure equal to or greater than the existing private teleco networks with which to do that. That's just silly. Not sure how they're set-up to record cellular though. I'm sure they're working hard to expand that capability as we speak. What I said is they are working to gain unlimited access to the teleco's private network & storage systems (where much of the traffic can already be recorded - only limited to the capacity each teleco is willing to pay for) via legislation. No need to record everything live. At the rate privacy is being eroded it won't be very long before any target of interest can be data-mined to include all private phone conversations. Simple as logging in and asking some software package to retrieve the info and feed it to another software package(s) that will analyze the data. Few seconds/minutes/hours/days later and viola! Soon They™ won't have to actually capture and store anything. It's all being done for them by private interests that will soon sell out, or rather be forced to sell out, to whomever holds the most harsh threat of violence over their heads. The technology march continues and who knows what amazing new privacy infringing wonders the future will bring.

    OC128? Don't know that one. I do know OC-48 is about 2.5 Gbits/sec and OC-192 (Larger ISP backbones) is just under 10 Gbits/sec. OC-768 spits out over 38Gbits/sec. Granted it's not implemented widely yet but it's been implemented since 2007 or so. Modern bandwidth is expansive and exploding. Hell they're even laying fiber in Wyoming. The capacity for the alphabets to record live will eventually be there but if they've cut themselves a backdoor why would they bother? It's the old end around run play. Hey what's that??? Eh? Oh never mind thought I saw something. Distraction. It's what's on their agenda.


    PS I won't be a happy internet user until my ISP provides me with an Infiniband 12x EDR (yeah yeah it's an interconnect like SATA & PCI-E so probably a long way from ISP stuff) connection. 300 Gbit/sec might just be 'enough'! Imagine nanosecond latency... I'd even be OK with a few microseconds if I had to settle. Oh and all that for under $100 a month! We dreamers must dream big, no?
    Yard Dart likes this.
  20. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Lost in the woods

    No way !! Even if the technology existed to record all phone calls, that would be illegal wiretapping violating the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and our Government would never even consider doing something as unconstitutional as ignoring one of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights... Never.. Ever..... Ever.... They just wouldn't... .... I think i just threw up a little...
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