Are combat sidearms worth it?

Interesting. Not a thing here. How big are the targets?

 

Amazingly it's even true
Great WWII Escapes Planted in Top Secret Game

 

Good question! (Hard one to answer, too.) My thinking on this subject goes like this: Personally, I don't like carrying a rifle (or carbine) and a pistol on the same side of my body. Why? Because the rifle's stock always ends up banging against the pistol and getting scratched. (I understand that things would be different if I wore a combat vest.)

If I sling my rifle on a conventional style sling with the muzzle down in the same way that my Marine Corps uncles and other close family friends originally taught me to do, then, I'm able to bring the muzzle to bear with only one small motion of my support-side arm. Just grab the forend, twist your hand, and, voilà, the muzzle is going to be pointing at its intended target! I, also, have the firm personal conviction that as long as my primary long arm is working, (and under my control) then, I will not voluntarily resort to using a sidearm.

In my mind my long arm is my primary weapon; my pistol is my secondary weapon; and the small pistol I carry in my front pocket has the exact same significance as my assisted-opening knife: The small pistol and my blade are both tertiary self-defense weapons. So, what kind of 'firearm practice ' do I consider to be absolutely vital to anyone's self-defense plans? For me it's not about manipulating weapons, or switching back and forth between primary and secondary guns. Instead personal safety is all about remaining constantly aware of my surroundings, and the people who are moving all around me. I am someone who frequently plays the silent game of 'What If? ' scenarios with myself.

For instance I've got viable and well thought-out self-defense scenarios for mounting, and dismounting our vehicles. (Parking!) I've got entrance and exit strategies for both our home, and those properties where I visit the most often. I know every single 'gunman's hide' all around the farm! (I even know the lines-of-sight that an aiming gunman would have to use; and I've plotted these lines out like arrows that would, or could, lead me straight back to the firing point with nothing more than a casual glance.)

I've got 'What If ' reaction plans for: our home, the barn across the road, and parking the car away from the house in the front lot. Do I, also, have self-defense scenarios for these isolated gun ranges that I occasionally use? You bet I do! My number one 'What If ' reaction plan is to get the hell off and out of the range the moment I don't like the sort of company who might show up.

Other than this, inside my head, all firearms are organized by their: ease, practicality, and facility of use. Personally I never confuse the usefulness of a pistol with that of a carbine. As long as the carbine is working THAT is the weapon I'm going to stay with until it won't go 'Bang! ' for me, anymore.

During an urban crisis, the 'trick ' to carrying a carbine instead of a pistol lies in knowing how to keep it very well concealed until it's needed; (Reading FerFAL's website is where I learned the most about how to do this, correctly.) and, yes, I do subscribe to the well known axiom that a pistol is what should be used in order to fight your way to a rifle.

It is the rifle/carbine that is always going to be the better weapon!

 

I dont usually use movies as points but when I do ? I use John Wick.

 

Note he never just shoots anyone just once. I like his two to the torso and then the cap to the head. He finishes every bad guy. I also like the 45. It is hard to beat the 1911 for its years of service. I don't own one. Wish I did. Nothing beats a high capacity large caliber handgun in this type of fight.

 

I've never carried a comped pistol as EDC. I know a couple of guys that do, and have thought that a double stacked comped Commander might be an interesting carry piece.

 

Neither do I. I switched over to firing multiple pistol shots about 20 years ago; and, since then, I've never looked back.

Here's one of my usual EDC's: (The other two are similarly modified G-21's.)


Here's an (I swear!) 22 yard target that I spent a clip on while firing onesie-twosies-threesies. (Yes, I've done a lot of this.)


And, because I know somebody's gonna want to know: The pistol shown above is a modified Glock Model 19; and the slit ports really do work — especially during rapid-fire events. Of late I find myself doing more and more pistol shooting. Particularly now that I'm getting older, and don't really like taking those 2 to 6 hundred yard walks back and forth to the targets.

 

NRA Competitive Shooting Programs|Silhouette Programs
You can than just click the target pdf's:
http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/silhtgts/silhtar-08.pdf
http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/silhtgts/silhtar-07.pdf
http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/silhtgts/silhtar-06.pdf
etc...
Best part of the scaled down 100 Meter Hunters Pistol course is not having to walk 200,300, and 400 Meters. I can empathize with you Lone Gunman.

 

That's some good pistol shooting...

 

I have always liked having a small compact pistol as back up to my main side arm. some times that back up is a PPK, some times it's a Kimber Compact Ultra carry II, and some times it's a Smith Stubby! When I am out walk about, I go the other way and carry ether a Pair of highly modified Remmy 1858's or a Ruger Super Black Hawk .45 COLT loaded to rifle specs! At this, my normal 2011 double stack 10 mm becomes the back up, and the big shootin iron becomes the primary! I do this because often times, it's the bigger, much more powerful hand gun that is needed, and I may not have my main rifle or even my carbine close at hand. This gives me range and accuracy to "Fight" my way to a rifle! Weather it's in my truck or behind the front door, or........... I may be several hundred yards away when shit goes south, and I want/need the best tools I can have for that! Now during a SHTF or post event with things side ways, I go into combat mode and carry the rifle AND carbine as primary and secondary, but I switch back to the Big 10 AND compact .45 as back up, and then the large fixed blade! Layers are King!!!

 

Yes, thank you, it is; and that is 'Why ' I took the above and numerous other pictures of targets I've shot. This one was the best target of the afternoon! I usually hesitate to post it, though, because the last time I put it up on somebody's gun board some kid came along, said that it was an 'impossible target '; and, in true internet gun forum fashion, called me a liar. Imagine! I could take my wife to Bermuda or the Bahamas with what she lets me spend on ammunition every year; and, there, I've got some internet gun forum schmo, jumping up and down on the net, calling me a liar!

Goodnatured fellow that I am I was even willing to explain to the members of that gun board 'How ' to really handle a pistol and shoot like this. (I put the 'finishing touches' on my own shooting style after very carefully studying D.R. Middlebrooks' own remarkable pistol shooting techniques; and, quite frankly, it took me a few years to really get everything 'down pat '.)

However, I had to learn the hard way that one of the main reasons people keep on making the same mistakes, over and over again, and never seem to learn is because the younger ones keep on pissing the older ones off! So what happens? The older ones (The people who actually know what they're talking about.) discover the practical wisdom of keeping their big mouths shut, and letting the (invariably much smarter) younger ones figure everything out for themselves.

Before Al Gore invented the internet I actually used to like people; and I was always willing to help out whenever and wherever I could; but, nowadays and after 18 years on 'Big Al's internet ', I find myself becoming more and more 'nobody's sheepdog '. I carry my guns for myself; and, for the most part, the herd's on their own. Here's another photo of a genuine epiphanic moment I had when, during the fall of (I think?) 2003, I surprised myself by finally learning how to fire a pistol very fast and very accurately.



This is a 16 1/2 yard target that I fired with a G-21 just as straight and fast as I could empty the magazine. The holes appeared in the plate faster than I could actually see things happen! After I finished shooting and put the pistol down on the bench, I turned around to see about 2 dozen police officers standing directly behind me.

The whole crowd was smiling and nodding their heads in approval! Then they started clapping and making 'thumbs up ' signs. I had to smile to myself when I heard one of them say, 'Sure hope he don't ever decide to rob no banks in my town! '

(This happened at a large indoor police range where I used to like to 'winter over '. It's just something that I wanted to do in life; so I began firing up to 2,000 'full house ' pistol rounds each month until — finally and, quite frankly, to my own complete surprise — I taught myself how.)

 

GLUNK 19 bone stock. Drawing from concealment. 20 yards

 

Wow! For rapid-fire pistol work at 20 yards that's really some pretty darned good shooting — Truly, it is! Both of the above pistoleros are, indeed, formidable gunmen!

Those targets represent better pistol shooting performance than I've seen delivered by the general membership during many: IDPA, USPSA, IPSC, & PPC shooting matches; and I've watched 100's, if not 1,000's, of pistoleros punch out holes in both paper and steel.

In my carefully considered opinion: The individual ability to deliver such quick, clean, and nice tight groups, at and beyond normal confrontational distances of 8 to 10 yards, actually makes choice of caliber, or even the type-of-action, irrelevant.

Such performance is (literally) life-saving seconds ahead of most viable threats; and the accuracy is such that any personal choice of (pistol) caliber isn’t going to matter. People who can shoot a handgun this well aren't to be seen everyday!

(Just remember that a carbine is always going to be the better primary weapon. Me? I carry pistols because, most of the time, I have no other choice, and NOT necessarily because I actually prefer to.)

 

Your'e overlooking the fact that those shots were fired at a stationary target on a bright, sunny day.

The groups loosen up considerably when your target is a moving crackhead in war paint and a bird mask (true story) in a parking lot at 0230

 

I can not afford to shoot large caliber in enough rounds per week to become proficient with the weapon. This is why we have Ruger Sr-22 Pistols. We can afford to shoot 100 rounds per week each. Both my wife and I can pepper center mass in ten round bursts . At like 30 feet not 25 yards. I have to aim at longer distances. We learned to snap shoot at close range. The rounds we use for defense are the very best available but pale to even a 9mm solid bullet. The 40 grain hollow point CCI Velocitor expands to about 36 caliber on impact and gets about 1000 feet per second muzzle velocity. The best a .22 can do in my humble opinion. I do not repeat DO NOT consider it a good choice for defense but we both shoot well with them and that to me is better than a sharp stick. Maybe some day I can afford to shoot a .45 but for now at least I am proficient with what I have.

 

Agreed. moving targets and snap shooting go hand in hand. Muscle memory , repetition , practice. Almost like shooting skeet with a hand gun. We roll tires and launch things like boxes and buckets to try hitting moving targets. It is even harder when you are also moving.