Army Bans PMags

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Brokor, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    In Reversal, Army Bans High-Performance Rifle Mags |

    More info:

  2. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    They were never approved. The only ones ever authorized were the aluminum milspec ones. All they are saying now is stop using unapproved Mag's.

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  3. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    A lot of units, including mine were issued P Mags for our deployment. The reason given was that there were no standard issue mags available. Granted this was back in 06/07 when the involvement in both Iraq/Afghanistan was at the highest.
    Brokor likes this.
  4. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    What a unit Commander buys and issues is not the same as what the Army approves.

    I am not saying that Army units do not, or have not used them, I am saying the Army has never approved them.

    Approved equipment has to meet a standard. People may not like the standard, or agree with the reasons for it, but it is what it is. Right now the standard for 5.56 magazines requires an aluminum body. Someday that might change but for now that is the standard.

    Ploymers have their problems. Nylon for example degrades when exposed to calcium hypochlorite (used for CBRNE decon) . That may not be an issue in some operations, in others it might be a big deal. A follower made of nylon might be fine because the degredation is well below the level needed to maintain integrity. Feed lips however may not be fine under the same conditions.

    I like Magpulls and I own a few more than I should, but just because I like them, does not mean the Army does not have a good reason to prohibit their use.

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  5. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    Understand what you are saying, it's just that when we mobilized in '06, Ft. Mcoy had no standard issue mags available at all. P Mags are what we ended up with. there was even a shortage of ACU Uniforms for those of us that still had BDU's. We did not receive them until the morning we actually left Ft. McCoy for Kuwait.
  6. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    I have no doubt your CO did the right thing. Getting you guys what you needed to do the job was more important than following the regs. That is what any good field commander should do.

    From a big picture perspective, PEO Solider needs to make sure what is approved for our troops meets all requirements. As of right now poly mags do not. That is the only point I was trying to make.

    Thanks for your service, I'm glad you made it home safe.

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  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    It was my job to order property in the Army -and believe me, a good supply NCO will get what the troops need.
    The PMags exceed the standards. The link I provided above explains this and why the military is being hard-headed about it. However, if the reason is strictly that soldiers are not using PMags, but any old plastic magazine...I can see a problem there. The bottom line is, NCO's need to police their troops, keep the standard, and maintain discipline. PMags are not the problem, this is the "new" Army...some top dogs want proprietary ownership. Not gonna happen. Well, in any case, the steel mags work fine with a little work and as long as they are kept in good shape.
  8. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    Actually they don't, the standard requires aluminum bodies. I am not arguing the standard should require aluminum, I am saying it does.

    As for PMags exceeding all other standards, I have never seen a report demonstrating their magazines meet the requirements relating to chemical resistance or their effectiveness after long term storage in adverse conditions. The approval process for military equipment is not just about how it works out of the box.

    Since Magpul will not release the composition of their polymer (Understandably), there is no way anyone other than Magpul can know what standard it will meet or not.

    Are Magpul magazines degraded by various decontamination chemicals? or by the actual chemical warfare agents? Aluminum is not. What are the long term effects of exposure to UV light? Aluminum is not effected by UV light.

    I don't buy the "not invented here argument". The Military contracts for proprietary material all the time, and often spends tens if not hundreds of millions to buy the data rights for equipment.

    Arguing the requirements is one thing, but once the requirements are set (as in aluminum bodies) then to say anything that is not aluminum "meets the standard" is wrong by definition.

    Now after all that, like I said, I love my PMags :)
  9. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    Concerning the standard issue G.I Mags, the problems were with the green followers. In 2009 they were changed to the improved tan followers.
    Brokor likes this.
  10. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    The tan followers are much better IMHO.

    IIRC, Pmags had issues with insect repellant :eek:

    It takes more than some youtube video of a truck running over a magazine to meet specifications.

    I have seen more than a few Pmags that wouldn't drop free like aluminum mags. Pmag's response "out of spec lower"..... on a TDP M4 US MIL CARBINE????

    Plastic mags have been a recurring theme in firearms. A recurring theme that many countries don't care to repeat. Thermold mags come to mind. Orelites are another. The Bulgarian AK poly mags have metal feedlips..... why do you think that is?

    Of course, people were touting Pmags as the best thing since sliced bread when they hadn't been out more than 6 months. Now that they have been around awhile we start to see some truths- out of spec feedlips from being stored loaded (most extreme example was when rounds were side-by-side instead of staggered in the magazine, cracked feedlips, over-insertion from the retention holes being worn which causes malfunctions in the weapon.

    IMHO, they are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Mags are disposable items. They have a useful life, then you toss them.

    (A side note- I do own some.)
  11. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

  12. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    :) I doubt you will see of lot of pictures of them in an actual operational situation. Besides I heard they got SCARs...

    I have no doubt a lot of Magpul magazines were "issued" but in the military issued means someone gave it to you and told you to use it.

    The average grunt or deckplate sailor could care less if it is "approved" or not, or if it meets spec or not, they only care if it works for them when they need it. When it doesn't it's a piece of crap and everyone involved in it's procurement and issue should be...(edited for family viewing).

    The people in charge of deciding what to approve and what not to approve have a little more to worry about than one mission or a single operational environment. They don't know if it's going to be used in Siberia or Iraq, if it's going to be brand new, or 30 years old when it's issued. They don't know if it will be sprayed with jet fuel or DEET. What they do know is whatever they approve needs to work when it's needed. For the most part they do a pretty good job.

    The Magpul lovers need to get over it. Its just a magazine.
    RouteClearance likes this.
  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    The only mags I used while deployed were the official military spec aluminum ones, but I left before the tan followers came out. Knowing my old unit, they still have tons and tons of the green ones. We rigged them up with paracord pull loops. They worked well enough with a little TLC.

    Yup, I love my PMags. I never had a problem with Tapco yet, either. It's the same as the ammo excuses I often hear, it all depends on the batch I guess. I know some people like to SMASH! to prove they are HARDCORE! but in reality, they both work fine. I am not retarded, hence my mags work fine.
  14. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    I like my Pmags. Never had any problems. They also don't try to cut up my fingers or rattle when loaded like aluminum or steel mags. They work great for me, so thats all I need to know :)
  15. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I know there was a partial issue (600 of 1800) SCARs about 3 years ago. It was in Army Times and a co-worker was 75th.

    True, Grunts have never given a rat's rectum. I guess maybe ain't no one there watching? ;)
    There are stores in Fayetteville which do a thriving business selling better than issue gear. Just don't lose what was issued. LOL

    They do a damn good job, Too many put all their focus in the tip of the spear. Without the shaft, the spear is an unwieldy knife.
  16. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

  17. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    I read the comments on
    Army Now Says No Ban on Rifle Magazines

    Jun 07, 2012

    What became most surprising is how many posters did not even know what has happened.

    All the bitch about Brownells by those posters on indicate that they, the posters, are totally unaware that the Brownell Mags are using and have been using PMAG follwers

    Oh so DUMB. In short, the PMAG GEN 2 Followers had a feed problem so MAGPUL did a redesign.

    BOTH aluminum and "plastic"/ PMAG mags now have GEN 3 PMAG parts.

    Who'ed a thunk such a simple thing that so many missed.

    LETS see how to say this again ?????

    No Big deal get over it.

    "We added two of the most popular aftermarket accessories to our ultra-reliable chrome silicon spring magazines, so you get a customized magazine ready to run hard right out of the bag. The curved 30-round model comes with the Magpul Self-Leveling Follower. This follower won’t tilt as rounds are fed into or stripped from the magazine, and its self-lubricating polymer composition helps ensure smooth movement in the mag body for easier loading and ultra-smooth feeding. For an added tactical or competitive edge, the 30-round Tactical Magazine is also available with the Magpul Ranger® floorplate to ensure lightning-fast magazine changes. An easy-to-grasp finger loop aids in fast, positive extraction from tight mag pouches and helps you hang onto the empty magazine with just a finger after a tactical reload. Made of tough stainless steel overmolded with non-slip Santoprene™ synthetic rubber to cushion the magazine from impact when dropped on concrete or other hard surfaces. Straight-body 20-round model comes with the Ranger plate and a fiberglass-reinforced plastic follower specially designed for smooth operation in a straight-body magazine. NOTE: Installation of Ranger floorplate on 20-round models limits capacity to 18 or 19 rounds. Both models available in standard Military Gray.

    camera. Check out the video demonstration & the Magazine Test video of Brownells AR-15/M16 Magazines.
  18. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

  19. wrc223

    wrc223 Monkey+

    Screw it! I am just gonna smash all my mags and forget using any mag fed weapon. From now on it's revolvers and falling block rifles! Anything else is just sheee-it!
    oldawg likes this.
  20. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    The Brownell's commercial magazines may be available with Magpul followers, but the 70 or so new Brownell's USGI mags that I have come with a proprietary ant-tilt follower, commonly referred to as the tan follower. They are not remotely the same... other than they are both anti-tilt. The faux round is molded into the opposite side of the follower.

    Here is another failure report on Pmags:
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