At an 88% success rate, I could probably pass the US citizenship knowledge test

No the takeover was more than 50 years ago and like everything else just keeps on rolling. While in the 5 th grade in a rural 1 room schoolhouse with 15 kids and 1 teacher, I can still remember reading Aesop's Fables and Horatio at the bridge and we learned to read by reading poetry, history, etc, still read Longfellow. Pledged the flag every morning and wrote letters to servicemen, mine were very limited in the 1 st grade, but were answered. Reality really hit home at a very early age as I remember a couple written by fellow class men being returned as the person written to was "deceased". Freedom never is free.

 

I missed one...I forgot who the head justice of Supreme Court was...I hate Ginsberg so much that her name stuck in my head.

Anyway, maybe I will study to become Aussie as since I don't have medical insurance now and it appears that I can't get any until November so I will be fined...not too pleased with my country's leaders this morning.

 

The take over was March 6, 1933. For those of you haven't read this thread yet I would say that it is required reading.

The take over happened and not a single shot was fired. The entire country was enslaved and nobody fought back. Now it was only done in writing but those words are now going into force and people will start to feel it. Come 2033 I would guess that we will feel the FULL force of their evil plans. People are starting to wake up and sure they will start fighting back but this knee jerk reaction is doomed to fail. Why? Because you never retaliate, always initiate. First we fight with our heads. Then we fight with our hearts.

Oh yeah, the test seemed like my 4th grade history class all over again. 100% but I did have trouble when they asked me what type of economy we have... wasn't sure if it was what we tell people or what it actually is. Then the website crashed my browser and opened up some highly suspicious scripts...

 

When we were in grad school, our neighbors from China gave us a US Geography Quiz Software game. We were laughing because when you get an answer wrong it said in a deep low voice "WWWWWRRRRROOOOONNNNGGGG". Our friends politely chuckled, but said they hadn't heard it. How humiliating...

 

+2, Hes a shoe in at Cali, As long as he wears his flaming red wig, Long eye lashes,Pumps,fishnet stockings and a thong with peacock feathers sticking out his arse!

 

100%... But I cheated I do have graduate degrees in Political Science/Public Administration.... so I guess I don't count...

 

Well, can't say I did too bad, but feel a bit cheated! I didn't get 24 questions (but got all of the ones they asked correct). Wasn't 100% positive on Wilson for WW1 but turns out I was right.
Your Results:
Correct: 22
Incorrect: 0
Number Of Questions: 24
Percent correct: 92%

Taking the test is only part of becoming a citizen, and it's a straw man argument to say that we're using it as our bulwark against terrorists entering the country. Yes, anyone can study and they only have to get 6/10 correct (that's a D by every school standard I ever had to adhere to) and yes, they can even lie on the paperwork and be trained on how to appear convincing and answer all of the non textbook questions correctly. What does that have to do with anything really? Nothing. You also have to stand and take the Oath of Citizenship or Naturalization Oath, or the equivalent affirmation:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Personally don't care if you "so help me God" at the end, and neither does USCIS as evidenced by the following:

"If you are unable or unwilling to take the oath with the words “on oath” and “so help me God” included, you must notify USCIS that you wish to take a modified Oath of Allegiance. Applicants are not required to provide any
evidence or testimony to support a request for this type of modification."

The point I'm making above has nothing to do with religion, deity, God, theism or supernature in any way, shape or form.

But what binds you to that oath other than your own sense of honor and morality? Nothing. Could someone lie while taking the oath? Yeah...maybe even be crossing their fingers when they do it so it's not "binding". It's just words. Yes, words that should mean something to you, should "cause a stirring in your bosom" as it were, but just words nonetheless.

Why would you take the test? Why would you take the oath? Why would you go through the entire LEGAL process of becoming a citizen? Why bother if you don't mean it? Either you DO believe it and believe in it, or you believe that the best way to take down an enemy is from within and you believe that any means necessary are fair game. We can't stop that with more tests and more interviews and more oaths.

Yeah, a terrorist could take and pass the test with about 30 minutes of study time. They could follow all the steps that take, in many cases, almost a decade to legally immigrate and naturalize. Seems like a darned awful lot of work to get inside and cause some damage when you can get a Visa in 45 days, not take a test, meet up with members of a cell and do the same amount of damage in much less time.

While I haven't taken the test in a couple of years and it was good to go through something like this again, if nothing else but for my own edification, this was a ridiculous thread to start based on a feeble attempt at I truly don't even know what. It's in the Humor section but it's not funny, although I guess there was some self-deprecation in one of the posts. I don't find my citizenship humorous in the least. Sometimes I find it frustrating and like others sometimes I question the validity of the whole system at this point, but it's not a joke, it's not humorous and it's not a diversion.

 

Got two wrong.

 

I think you're straw manning the 'alleged' straw man in my OP. I didn't suggest that the online 'Citizenship Test' was a bulwark against terrorists entering the country. I was merely pointing out that the 'Citizenship Test' simply tests one's memory of historical facts about America's political figures, and its governance. Such a test if required of US natural born citizens would not offer any bulwark against domestic terrorists either.

Me personally? To become a US citizen if that was my intention.

I wouldn't....I'd take the affirmation option; an imagined supernatural agent isn't likely to be any more effective in making a potential citizen more committed to their obligations as a citizen than a non theist....the theist's god could 'tell' them in his/her/its/their inimitable way to ignore the secular laws of the land in favour of their god's rules. I would take the affirmation as my personal commitment as a citizen of the nation that I was pledging my allegiance to * . However, I do understand that some might not be as precious about their secular oath keeping, particularly those whose first commitment is to their god...as a Christian, or as a Muslim etc.

Because it is the requirement for becoming a citizen. Without complying with those legal processes, one cannot become a citizen. Q.E.D.

Some might do so out of self interest, rather than ultruistic concern for the collective. It's quite apparent that many natural born US citizens have evaded the requirement to:

Back in the day, the 'tweeter in chief' had been very athletic in avoiding his nation's lawful call to arms. Perhaps he had some mental reservations or some evasive purpose...(like self preservation?)

Undoubtedly using any means necessary to achieve one's ends may be self justified by some....but you are offering a false dichotomy....between belief and disbelief....for many it may perhaps be a case of some varying degree of apathy / disinterest, to the extent of not wishing to continue being a non citizen.

I agree, but I was not suggesting that it would...but never fear, the TRumpinator may add a few more hoops and hurdles to jump through and over; not because they will be particularly effective, or make the USA safer, but because it would play to his voter base.

You're entitled to your opinion, and if you feel the need to harrumpf about it...that's your prerogative.

Humour is such an individual quality...It's quite possible that the humourless find little to be humoured by anything. Certainly others here have been a little less po-faced about it...po-faced - Wiktionary , but if it really grinds your gears, you can lobby a moderator to move it to Freedom and Liberty or perhaps General Discussion

Astute of you to have noticed....the satirical cartoons might have been a slight clue.

You can take your citizenship as seriously as you wish...I have not suggested otherwise.

Questioning the validity of any system is a worthy pursuit...it sometimes leads to systems improvement, whereas unquestioning compliance can be the unskeptical road to mediocrity.

Testing one's own knowledge against the minimum requirement for aspiring citizenship applicants, is a diversion for those natural born US citizens, who are not required to jump through that particular administrative hoop. The site gets many visitors from around the world...think of this thread as my public service to potential citizens (of Australia as much as the USA) in being better informed about citizenship testing requirements they may have to undergo.)

* Apart from my initial ADF enlistment, made on oath (I was nominally still a theist at the time), to my knowledge, all re-enlistments and my commissioning as an officer were by affirmation. Although retired from service in the Australian Defence Force, I still hold myself bound to the affirmation I made when I was commissioned.

In the event of Australia becoming a republic (which I heartily support), then my loyalty will be transferred to the new national entity.

 

It's all in the genes....or Photoshop. What causes albinism?

 

@chelloveck - This is why I have you on ignore and why I choose not to engage with most people who are militant atheists. That isn't an attack but it is how I would describe you. You choose to assume some religious bent is implied when none is intended. Okay, there's an affirmation. The point I was making wasn't about making an "oath", bound by deity of some kind although yes, there's that "so help me God". You and any other militant atheist get your hackles up whenever that word gets used, many times even when it isn't directed at you, and feel the need to correct everyone who deigns to use the word. While I'm not an atheist, I do believe there is something out there...just not sure what and I don't "worship" them, I personally still find a bit of comfort in non-theist-specific, non-gnostic-specific...ideas and ideals. Moving on.

As far as the straw man argument, your post didn't touch on anything but "how easy would it be for a terrorist to pass this test?". But why ask that question? It serves no purpose without context. I'm in IT and had to deal with the IT equivalent, literally, and in all cases the "proof was in the pudding". I constantly had to deal with "how easy would it be to take and pass the Microsoft/Novell/Cisco/Linux exam?" It always came down to the fact that test was a hurdle, but not a barrier. Same with any of these tests and interviews and oaths/affirmations/pinky promises/whatever to become a citizen. And no, I don't see it as anything more than a believe/don't-believe binary choice.

If you come here for any reason other than to be a citizen in all respects and in every way, then you don't "believe". If it's for self interest, then you don't believe. If it's to get away from something rather than come to something, then you don't "believe". If it's not to integrate and become part of a greater, larger whole, then you don't "believe". That's my opinion and before you say it, yes, I'm entitled to mine and you are entitled to yours. But yes, my opinion is you either are or you aren't, and if you aren't then you don't believe. You can be a citizen and disagree with something, but you still "believe" in, or agree with, more than you don't believe in or agree with. I wouldn't take a job with the intent of changing 51+% of the company, I wouldn't try to become a citizen of a country I don't "believe in" less than 51+% of. Again, if they want to take it down, they get here on a Visa or as a refugee and overstay, disappear, wreak havoc, etc., they don't take a decade to become a citizen.

Like theism (at least for me and frankly for many others), every word that proceedeth forth frometh my mouth(eth), is not to be taken "literally". When I asked "why would you", I guess I should have put "you" in quotes or said "someone" because I didn't mean you. You strike me as an intelligent although irritating person. You also strike me as a generally serious and moral person (regardless of moral compass, NO DEITY INVOKED by using that word) who would keep their promise, regardless of the word you use to imply said promise and no, not all oaths require a "God" signature on the end although many do invoke deity. I wasn't questioning you directly or personally but the vast majority of your points don't address the concept of hurdle or barrier or moral rectitude of the masses who go through the process and make that promise, and only deal with you personally. Yes, I understand that you can't speak for anyone but yourself, but we all deal in abstracts every day but it seems like you revel in starting an abstract conversation and then refuse to engage in said abstract and then obtusely refuse to admit such.

To some of your other points, I will grant you that yes, taking that test could be seen as a diversion for a natural born citizen, and frankly I see that as part of the problem. It shouldn't be and like I said earlier, it isn't for me. It's something that isn't taken nearly seriously enough by nearly enough people. Brokor, @enloopious and others are spot on that the system is broken, if it was every truly a working system to begin with. But "you have to believe in something" and so this is what I choose to believe in, at least a little bit. I'm not blind about it though and I'm loyal more to the idea and ideal than to the entity (Constitution vs President).

As for this topic, I'll gladly continue to engage if you can accept that God, deity, theism, religion, supernaturalism and/or aliens (from beta reticula or any other non terrestrial body), were not intentionally invoked for the purpose of this conversation and frankly, in my opinion, have nothing to do with the discussion. I'm even going to modify my above post to reflect that and make it clear. If you absolutely must continue to drag that in, then I'll disengage. If you want to have a discussion about religion or lack thereof, feel free to PM me. I'll even unignore you long enough to see if we can make it work. If we can't, we can't, and maybe I'll install something that gives me an electric shock every time I hover over "show ignored content".

For what it's worth, you are the only person I have on ignore that I will even occasionally click that link for. I'm not looking for a pat on the head or a condescending remark, just telling you that as irritating as you can be, I at least keep trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

To become a citizen requires more then a test. Money, lots of paperwork and many months to years of waiting to get through the process.

 

I think that we all ignore the real test, you have to desire to become an American citizen and publically state under some affirmation or oath, a process which may include the word God or may not, that you freely wish to become a citizen, to fulfill the duties that are involved, give up your allegiance to any other country, and in effect to obey its laws.

While in many ways I agree with you DarkLight, my view of God, unlike that of the Moslem's, is that we all have free will and chose or are blessed to believe in him. If someone does not believe and is vocal about it, so be it. We all will in the long run find out the real truth of the matter and I personally would rather be right rather than wrong and I find a profound belief in God to be a very comforting thing and really don't care what others think or believe. That said I do believe that a person of good character can affirm his oath and stand behind it.