1. The Topic of the Month for October is "Make this the Perfect Bugout Location". Please join the discussion in the TOTM forum.

ATTN: GSG-5 SD Owners

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Mountainman, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    More BS (Pelosi) from your favorite alphabet agency. These morons have way to much time on their hands and need to be put out of business!!!

    To all retail customers:
    On January 2010American Tactical Imports Inc received official notification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and explosives that the original barrel shroud (aka: fake suppressor) supplied with your GSG 5 SD model must be replaced. It has been determined that this shroud is regulated under the National Firearms Act. American Tactical will provide a replacement shroud at no charge for each GSG 5 SD model sold or currently in inventory.
    Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible.We anticipate arrival of the new shrouds to begin by the middle of February 2010.
    If possible return your old shroud to the dealer where purchased and show him this notice. The shroud will be returned to ATI along with a list of serial numbers from the guns that the shrouds were removed. ATI will send replacements to the dealer for pick up at your convenience; ATI will be sending replacements as fast as logistics allow. If your dealer is out of business or difficult to reach, or you purchased your gun used, from a consumer, return the shroud directly by US mail or UPS to American Tactical Imports Inc. 100 Airpark Drive Rochester, NY 14624.
    PLEASE TRY NOT TO CALL US. We will provide comprehensive information on our web site www.americantactical.us , and www.ar15.com or by e-mail to atiexchange@americantactical.us
    This action IS NOT being instituted through any fault and is strictly due to NFA compliance. American Tactical will assume the responsibility to satisfy the requirements in an effort to minimize the impact on our customers and protect your investment.
    We at American Tactical Imports Inc. sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this unfortunate situation.
    Anthony DiChario
  2. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Bunch of BS, I would scap it before I sent in a serial number .....
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    you got that right. Screw the feds.
  4. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Why is the shroud regulated under NFA? It's a shroud!
  5. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Here is a Q&A post from another site, supposedly the person answering is Anthony DiChario from American Tactical Imports.

    We at ATI only have an official ruling on the can its self as being now classified as a real silencer. ATF has not issued any official documents regarding this publicly or to ATI, other than having their lawyers approve the statement that starts this thread for consumers. (Emphasis supplied, MBV) I wish I had a 'here's the official word!' doc from ATF to give you, but it appears at this time I will not be getting one, or be allowed to show you what I already have.

    How much more is the replacement going to weigh? Is the finish any better on the new one. Mine chips the paint if you look at it wrong. Will it look the same when installed on the rifle?

    The original SD fake suppressor weight .45 LBS (7.2 ounces). The new fake suppressor weight .5 LBS (8 ounces) so there's not really too much difference in the overall weight. Looking at the new one next to the old one, the finish looks the same. The modification is completely internal, there is no change in the guns appearence with the new fake suppressor.

    OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear???? Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"??????????

    As it stands right now it is only the SD can that is being effected by the mind changing at ATF.

    Another damn delay on getting an SD conversion kit!

    Tell me about it

    And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up

    At this time, we would like you to return it to the dealer where you bought it from. That way we can get them in bulk from the dealer and ship replacements to one location. How it gets to your dealer is up to you.

    interesting, brings up a couple of questions, wasnt it passed before importation? and what reason do they give?

    Yes it was. I even have a letter I'm not allowed to share where they revoked our permits for being approved in error. The brunt of this entire situation is on ATI here, please don't look for an official letter to be issued to the public by the ATF because I get the feeling they will not.

    just curious, what will the replacement shroud look like? will it be the smaller version, or something completely different?

    Nope, dead ringers. In fact, the modification can be done at the factory on the original version, which is why we're not destroying them. Cost saving.

    Is there an issue with the carbine models?

    Not yet. Doesn't mean that they won't change their ruling on that either at this time though.

    isnt the carbine and the SD the same thing besides "girth"? i cant see why they would have changed the design without letting ATI know about it.....even thought they already changed the finish

    This is the real kick in the groin here is that there has never been an alternate 'version' of the fake suppressor. The carbine version was a hollow shroud when it went in for testing, all the guns have hollow cans. Same for the SD. I think what's bothering me the most is that field agents have told dealers (I have several different accounts of this) that the can was originally solid and that it was altered at some point in time. Sorry fellas but EVERY SINGLE GSG-5 AND GSG-5SD HAS A HOLLOW CAN. It's the only way they were ever made. Also to pre-empt some questions too, THERE ARE NO APPROVED CANS ON ANY SD THAT IS IN THE COUNTRY. All the new GSG-522 guns, when they come out will have the new style can.

    Does the fake can actually reduce the dB ?

    Mikey threaded one onto the 5P and shot a bunch of rounds. Nope, there is no noticable change in dB. I don't think ATF even tested it before revoking our licenses.

    I know that "we must comply or else" but seriously, what is the reason behind this? Is it based on potential? Should we stop selling 2 liter colas and baby bottle nipples?

    When we met with the ATF about this in january one of their field agents showed us how to make a suppressor out of a bottle of water that was on the table. Granted, we have seen fake cans come in on gun repairs that have definitely been altered and maybe they seized a gun with an altered one, i really don't know. They contacted us about it way back in November and it's all been slowly building up, but other than letting us know that we imported over 13 thousand guns that they have now decided are NFA firearms, telling us to formulate a plan for a recall/swap out and sending agents here to monitor our movements on this, they're not really telling us a whole lot.

    Isn't the end of the barrel even with the muzzle end of the "can"?

    Yes, doesn't matter apparently.

    What reason did they give for the can falling under NFA?

    Actually, I do have this, kind of, although the wording of the law and their reasons only kind of match up if you squint and tilt your head to the side a bit. Here is what the referenced in their letter regarding the re-testing of the shroud;

    "As you are aware, the GCA, 18 USC $ 921 (a) (24), defines 'firearm silencer' as follows:

    "....any device for silencing, muffling or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

    General characteristics of known firearm silencers include:
    1 Ported inner tube (bleed holes)
    2 Expansion chambers
    3 Baffles or washers which create seperate expansion chambers
    4 sound dampening material such as foam, steel wool and other materials
    5 End Caps
    6 Encapsulators

    The previously submitted GSG-5SD barrel shroud incorporates a large expansion chamber and integral end caps and, therefore, was classified as a firearm silencer."

    That's what they said.

    so to me at least, the jury is still out on the issue of whether or not the standard carbine is effected by this as ATI has yet to state that it absolutely is not.

    This is accurate. Right now we have to wait to see what ATF tells us to do.
  6. pcc

    pcc Monkey+

    According to the internet experts on another site I visit, they (ATI) are being targeted because the shrouds are easily converted into real suppressors. After taking the shroud off of mine I can see where there's some truth to this one.
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member


    "The previously submitted GSG-5SD barrel shroud incorporates a large expansion chamber and integral end caps and, therefore, was classified as a firearm silencer."

    But it's still not a silencer, it can be made into one...and that is where the ATF comes in -to stick their boot in your face and STOMP. This is fine with me because on the day the PEOPLE march -I want them to hear us coming. I want them to hear for miles and miles, just long enough for the piss to stain through their pants. [gun]
  8. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    Glad I don't have one, I'd just cut it up and send them a picture. Serial numbers? LOL
  9. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    You know what this ruling means now: 2 liter plastic pop bottles are NFA items and will have to have a $200 stamp! That brings the cost of soft drinks along with the $200 redemption value out of my price range.
  10. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    That's what bothers me. Easy to convert to an unregistered (but registrable) item is not illegal. My shotgun laying next to a hacksaw is also 'easily convertible' to a Short bbl shotgun.

    The camel's nose got under the tent long ago
  11. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Look at the "bright side"...
    Soon all rocks, tree limbs, snowballs, cream pies and sticks will have to be serial numbered and registered and we'll all have to pay a $200 tax stamp for every one on them!
    Now, as for those snow balls, it only affects those that have enough snow accumulation during certain months of the year, and the accumulation must be measured on each individual persons property and will be taxed accordingly, to the actual snowflake count per snowball! All snowballs will be measured according to caliber and anything larger that 1/2" in diameter will be construed as a destructive device!
    (Yup, sounds like the BATFE to me!)
  12. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I'm about over this madness.
  13. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Just might have started with the Austin IRS plane ride! Broker, ready to go, I am!!!
  14. pcc

    pcc Monkey+

    Not to mention baby bottle nipples. [beer]
  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    hehe. Well, the day for reckoning will certainly come, and we will know it when it does. The question remains...will the majority of Americans know also? I doubt it. You know, the greatest advantage the .GOV has right now is gradual change and the slow erosion of our rights, to the effect that they can carefully isolate and slowly pick apart the Patriots at will -knowing full well that we will all stand together if push really does come to shove. The greatest weakness we have comes in two parts; failing to recognize just when that time may come, and actually promoting a successful cohesive resistance. With this realization, any resistance must have open lines of communication and the availability of travel. They must also be able to fight. To summarize, it all comes down to this: Shoot, Move, Communicate. Any Commander will agree that if you lose any of these three components to battle you are dead in the water.

    I am ready to defend my life and liberty, but violence is never my solution. It is only a final answer once I have run out of all other options.

    The lone attack in Austin was a reminder not just of what one person is willing to do in the extreme; it serves to warn us that as individual attacks take place, the noose around our necks is slowly tightened. Even if this was a staged event, the .GOV plans on fully capitalizing on this to utilize contingencies already in place. As resistance becomes more prevalent, the media and law enforcement will continue to label previously peaceful patriots as potential threats -and just like the Middle East wars which continue to this day, pre-emptive measures will certainly be undertaken in the attempt to cut off any concerted efforts of resistance ahead of time.

    This is a realistic game of chess. Right now, the People are faced with opposition of grand-master caliber; their placement on the board is precarious at best. In order to keep out of the path toward "check mate", the freedom movement must always see further ahead than their opponent. This means being completely honest with yourself and others. Just having the will to do what is necessary is never enough; as victory can only be attained if the correct plan of action is taken.

    In order to defeat an enemy which is determined to use your weaknesses against you, the rules of this game dictate that you must either turn your weaknesses into strengths, or possess a greater strategy to compensate. In order to turn a weakness into a strength, one could lay a trap or be subversive. In order to gain better focus and strategy, one must be capable of extending the boundaries of their abilities.

    I am not going to become violent because one man went out kamikaze style...I am going to evaluate his tactic and try to learn all I can. If we cannot fight as one people in concerted effort - I cannot fully support any action.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary