basic gear

Discussion in 'Survival Communications' started by ghrit, Nov 24, 2011.


  1. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Alrighty then, bump and --

    Seems very likely I'll pass the Tech test on Nov 13, and hardware is becoming a priority so I get a Christmas present. (My kids can't afford it --)

    Researching the web points me toward a Yaesu 857 for both home and the road ultimately, whether portable or mobile. That rig will do it all for me, but wants a power supply in the house, and a wider range tuner than the one on board will be nice at some point; all that ignores antenna issues with this rock and on the road. Price of all that gives me huge pause. I need to look for used units and figure out if the sellers are reliable.

    In the meantime, a handheld will have to get me started learning while I get going on the general ticket. (Book is on order --.) There are several repeaters in the area. I can afford a new Yaesu VX 8GR, barely, and it will hook me into the repeaters easily. Whether or not I can yak at BTPost via repeater links is unknown at present. Also unlikely I can reach my cousins in OH, VA, and TX. The rest of you guys, well, I haven't the least idea, but I'm in grid FN21du for reference.

    There are a couple guys in SCARC that will make good Elmers. I'll be consulting with them on antennas, they keep saying how simple it is to design and build. At this stage of concept, it looks like an end fed zepp from the chimney to a tree would be the berries for the house station, but I don't know what the downsides are other than a counterpoise that I don't understand.
     
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Look'en good there Ghrit. There was a Contest going this weekend and 10 Meters was wide open. Heard lots of folks on the Tech Voice Band on 10, from Pa. You will enjoy working 10 meter voice while you study up for the General. I was sitting on my 20 meter freq. this morning and some dude from Europe popped up, and immediately got buried by contesters wanting a contact. When the band is open you don't need much power or much of an antenna, as long as the system is tuned up proper. Maybe we can chat on 10 Meters, when Gettysburg issues you call sign.
     
  3. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Good luck!

    I still think you'll enjoy it more if you start small.

    Here's a thought. After you get your callsign, you can sign up for Echolink. Get your feet wet without spending money.
    I think you can use the web receivers without even having a callsign.
    I hate for to spend all that money and then not have what you thought it was. This ain't cell phones. There's no amount you could spend that will guarantee you can talk to anybody you want, whenever you want. Even those fancy new rigs don't do anything the old proven (and less expensive) rigs do, they just do it with menus instead of buttons and dials. You're still sending or receiving the same old analog radiation through flaky conditions.

    I'd rather see you get a taste with humble equipment, see what parts of the hobby catch your fancy. Then you might spend money to improve that part of your shack.

    It's more about learning and doing than it is about having the latest and greatest.
     
    Tully Mars likes this.
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    You are probably right. The immediate aim is to get something that I can learn with and use as a backup comms means for when (not if) commercial power and phone lines take it on the lam, which it does up here now and then. I don't have a cell phone, partly because connections are very spotty here. The local repeaters are accessible all the time they have power, and one of them has a real backup power source. Of course, there's no guarantee that the repeaters will be up when I need one, but it's a step better than now. One more reason to get the general ticket and go with a transceiver that I can power from the gennie when I run it. I'm still fishing among the elmers available to me for good advice on starter hardware.
     
    Tully Mars likes this.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    One thing that works well for a 12 Vdc power System is to power everything from a group 17 Car Battery, and the float a 13.6 Vdc 20+ Amp regulated Power supply across the battery, to keep it charged. By doing this you always have at least 24 hours of battery power, if the grid goes down, before you have to power the system from the Genset. This is what I use for my Radio Room 12 Vdc buss. A pair of L16HDs in series floated across a 35 Amp 13.6 Vdc Regulated Power Supply, that is powered only when the Genset is running. The buss powers all the radios, HF, VHF, Marine, Aircraft, and Business, as well as the Data Controllers, and the power that recharges my MacBook Laptop. If you pull more Amps than the Power Supply can source, the battery makes it up, and when the buss is using less that the power Supply can source, it recharges the battery back to Float Voltage. (13.6 Vdc)
     
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    And bump again. After lots of looking and thinking, and anticipating the general ticket within the next few weeks, I've ginned up a wish list to start the real learning. Biting the bullet for the rig, well, I've come to the conclusion it just has to be done. I have an offer from a respected friend to borrow a transceiver that would be more than adequate for a base station, but a bit much for mobile ops that I think I want to do. So, for thinking and criticism, here's the current wish list for gear and why selected. Everything listed should be considered as having "or equal" appended.

    -Kenwood TS-480. Usable either base or mobile. (Yaesu 857d is under consideration, but might be a bit small for these old eyes.)
    -MJF 901B tuner (for base only)
    -MJF 4125 switching power supply (for base only)
    -Buddipole antenna (base or portable)
    -Whip for mobile (fingers crossed that I can figure out a way to make it work on more than one band without the tuner) or
    -Buddistick for mobile (or possibly base, too)

    All that is to get me learning. "The Plan" has future antennas in it, including a fan dipole that might just get me over the hill to BTPost at some point, and maybe an NVIS that will let me hit my cousin in Ohio, roughly 400 miles.

    Alternates and substitutes welcome, assuming compatibility issues are addressed.
     
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Fan Dipole, lets say at 40Ft AGL... If you stretch a wire at 10' AGL directly under the 80 Meter Legs that is 5% longer electrically, will give you a GOOD NVIS Cloud Burner Antenna. Then if you Break the Wire at the Center Point with a remotely Shack Activated Relay, will make the Wire, non-Resonant on 80 Meters, and bring your Dipole's H Field Pattern, back down for Distance Nighttime Comms on 80 Meters. This type of setup was pioneered by KL7BB (Crazy Billy B.) for use, during the Iditorod Dogsled Race, back in the 70's, before Cell and Sat Phones were used, in Race Coordination. An Alaskan Volunteer Ham, with a 80 Meter Portable SSB Station was dispatched to each CheckPoint along the trail, and Race Reporting Traffic, was passed each night, on an 80 Meter Net. Just a thought.....
     
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    bump and

    @Tikka, @Idahoser, @BTPost, @Alpha Dog, @Mechwolf, @GrandpaDave, @DKR, @strunk and anyone else following this thread.

    Last chance to keep me from a grevious error with thinking and gear selection in post #46. Pretty soon, will be writing checks, I do think. It's been a long time coming --
     
  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Go for it Ghrit.... Next stop is the TESTing Room.......
     
  10. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Don't have anything to add, just repeat that I'd rather see you get some handling time on borrowed equipment before you spend the money. There's no way to know if that stack is the be-all and end-all until you try it for your intended purpose.
    There is no use trying to buy something and put it away for emergencies, if you don't actually put it to use and learn how it all works, and get experience with it, it will be useless to you in an emergency.

    You don't need to find a TS-480 to know how that radio will be for you, you just need to borrow "an" HF radio of any breed and get some experience on HF, build a few wire antennas. Then you can have something to compare the Kenwood to, you know what the labels on the knobs mean, you know enough to start making decisions. You don't at this point.

    I'm sure you've heard that MFJ stands for "Mighty Fine Junk". That's probably a bit harsh, but I don't see anybody using MFJ power supplies, Astron seems to be the standard, I have a Pyramid I got used. A 20 amp seems to be about minimum. MFJ tuners do seem to be ubiquitous. You seem to have chosen a manual tuner. My philosophical view on that is that it's a good choice, but you should know that it's a hobby unto itself to use. An auto tuner would cost a little more but might give you more enjoyment at the beginning, not having to learn that TOO. That's one of the many things you need to learn before you spend that money, is that the tuner is only necessary if you're using a mismatched antenna system. If you can get 50 ohms to the transmitter, no tuner is needed. And if you're primarily going to focus on a couple of bands, you could just build dedicated antennas that are matched by design (like a dipole) rather than trying to have a multiband antenna that needs a tuner. Whether this ends up being your 'permanent' antenna farm is irrelevant; the learning by doing is what you're after.
    Most likely you are going to do a lot of listening first anyway, and for that you can use a mismatched antenna without a tuner. Heck you don't even need a transmitter for that, I'm sure you have a shortwave receiver now, if it's a nicer one it has SSB capability.
     
  11. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    @ ghrit...if you have a ham radio club in you're area, see what they are using and ask to observe and listen to the radios. You may find the audio of a different radio more to your liking...not saying the "list" is bad by any means, but some hands on experience may alter your choices.
    Best of luck on you test session!
     
  12. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    I would caution you that switching power supplies have a large inrush of power when you first turn them on - if your breakers are sensitive, they will trip repeatedly.
    I upgraded to a conventional 30 amp Astron power supply and have never looked back. I have a 20 amp model for my Ft747 for use while out of the shack.

    Also, consider a deep cycle battery and trickle charger for B/U power. You can always add a gas genny, solar panels, hand-crank genset, etc, etc later....


    A commercial/milsurp NVIS antenna (AS-2259) will run about 100 USD. Roll your own from these directions -
    n3oc.dyndns.org/Homebrew%20AS-2259%20GR.pdf‎
     
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    @Idahoser - I am not ignoring your concern about costs and lack of experience before biting off a bigger than perhaps advisable first bite of the apple. I've recently had it drilled into my head just exactly how fragile life can be for us olde phartes, and have very consciously abandoned almost all efforts to keep costs to a bare minimum. That should NOT discourage you from suggesting "less expensive" ways to get on the air and testing out the hobby for interest. One of the things I hope to accomplish with this thread is to allow folks with even less experience than I have to jump ahead in the thought process of getting a rig up and running. I must add that this is all going to be used, not put on a shelf "just in case." When winter comes and the range is inaccessible, I need something to do in place of TV other than housework.

    @DKR - The tip on inrush current is something I would never have thought of, thanx for that. Under normal circumstances, the station will be powered from a 20amp AC circuit that will most likely not have any other loads on it beyond a small lighting fixture. If that doesn't hold the load, I have a 220V circuit that has no other loads on it these days, and I can rig up something that will take the inrush. (With due attention to voltage that the power supply wants.) I'll have a closer look at the Astron ps later today, but the first squint tells me not enough. In the interests of getting started, home brew antennas have to wait a bit.

    @techsar - I've joined the local club, and chatted up a couple guys. Gotta say that most of them are as old and older as I am, and only two are even close to using modern gear. Those two are very hard to tie down for more than a very few minutes at a time. Worse, the club meets at a very central location, and most of the members travel in excess of 20 miles to the meetings. 20 miles doesn't scare me at all, but in the winter, those old boys stick pretty close to the fireplace. (Summer is almost here, so I expect to go see a couple shacks in the next couple months and will go to the field day in June to see what they have for portable stuff.)

    @BTPost - The fan dipole is on the want list. Masts first, methinks, if I can find an easy way to set them in the rock. I do NOT trust these confounded locust trees to remain standing another hour much less if I throw a rope over one.

    OK then, I am watching this thread and wandering the web looking at gear and reviews, and revising the basic gear materials list as seems warranted. So, c/p from post #46 and revised a bit -

    -Kenwood TS-480. Usable either base or mobile. (Yaesu 857d is under consideration, but might be a bit small for these old eyes.) Will be the TS-480SAT. The HX version wants two power supplies which would be OK as a base, but ruins mobile and portable use at my stage of development.
    -MJF 901B 941E tuner (for base only) I'm told the 941 has useful meters, to be confirmed.
    -MJF 4125 switching power supply (for base only)
    -Buddipole antenna (base or portable) I've had it recommended that a hamstick will work as well and much less pricy for base and interim portable use. Confirmed the price, but not the performance.
    -Whip for mobile (fingers crossed that I can figure out a way to make it work on more than one band without the tuner) or
    -Buddistick for mobile (or possibly base, too) Consensus seems to be that a Chameleon hybrid with VIL whip would be a better choice for both portable and mobile and not a bad start for the base failing something more appropriate. Yes, I recognize the band and power limitations for both mobile and portable use.
    Addressing backup power: At the home station, I've got a gennie that will do it along with the rest of the house. Future is open for thinking, but leaning at a Honda 1KW that should do the trick for portable. The house gennie is NOT portable unless I can enlist a couple gorillas to load it on the pickup.

    As always, feel free to comment and suggest.
     
  14. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    You might look at the MFJ-949E or the -969 tuners, mainly for the larger meter. The -969 also covers 6 meters. I use them both and have not had any problems from either. Of course, you could wait and see how well the tuner in the radio handles your setup first...auto tuners are nice, but sometimes they just aren't up to the task and sometimes they are.

    For the difference in price on the power supply, I would lean more towards the MFJ-4225MV, which allows you to fine tune your output voltage and also has volt & amp meters...handy to see if there is a problem quickly. We've been using a similar one for several years at the NWS forecast office without a hiccup and a 45 amp version at our club (220vac circuit) for field day - feeding 2 HF rigs without incident.
     
  15. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    BTPost likes this.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    @techsar - I'm still stewing the tuner question. The SAT may or may not have range enough to deal with any particular antenna I wind up with, and will not know until I set things up. The driving force now is to make sure I can make the parts and pieces work as close to out of the box as possible, especially given that I'm pulling a Sgt Shultz here. Anyway, I'll look those up and see if I can figure out the plusses and minuses. MFJ has such a wide spread of products that picking one over the others is sorta like picking winners out of also rans at the track. All can run, but only one runs fastest on any given day. (Hm. Insertion losses -)

    @ Idahoser - Thank you for the tip, the 706 specs out nicely, and would be a viable alternative based on price alone. The ONLY downside to ME is that it's an orphan, no longer made. I really have no problem with discontinued equipment when I have experience with the trade/occupation/use of the equipment, except when its use is a new thing to me. One never knows how long current production of the SAT unit will continue, but for now it's current production, a plus in my mind if no where else. BTW, earlier you mentioned that an external auto tuner might be a good bet. Concur, to a point. Will rethink; while I've decided to not cheap out, my wallet seems to feel the burn every time I make that decision, no matter if it's a toaster or tool. And it this case, I might learn something that I wouldn't otherwise know if I have to do it myself.
     
  17. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    whatever you pick, it isn't likely to be the final choice. That's why used is good until you're a lot more experienced.

    Eham or QRZ are good sources for used. Ebay even.
    You will see TS-480's listed there, cheaper than new. Somebody bought it and then changed their mind about what they wanted.

    The most common manual tuner would likely be the 949E, I have one. But the internal tuner on any transceiver is going to have a very small range compared to any external tuner, manual or auto.

    "homebrew antennas will have to wait" is backwards. Get experience putting up several wire antennas for specific bands that don't require tuners, to see what you like, then if you want to spend money on an antenna you could get a vertical or go all out with a tower and beams, but don't pay for wire antennas. You're not saving yourself any trouble that way, you still have to hang it up yourself.
     
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    XXXXXXX / A G as of tonight. Tomorrow, the plastic takes a hit.
     
  19. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Congrats! Now go edit that and remove your callsign, anybody in the world can look you up in the FCC database and find out where you live.
     
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Good point, color it done.
     
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