In the interest of exposing this exercise to guys that haven't yet started on the path to hamdom, the thinking continues. I'm still caught off base when I discover something that they don't tell you you'll need to get on the air. Building a "package" is more involved than I had hoped. At my age, I know I'm trading money for time, you younger guys will do well to think like idahoser and wet your toes learning less expensively. One thing that I missed early on was getting an HF receiver standalone box and do some listening; I charged into it without a clue of what it all entails, all in the name of SHTF comms. The emergency radio I have doesn't perform well on ham bands without a long wire external antenna. You guys just thinking about amateur radio should start with that idea firmly in mind. Gad. Researching antennas for a buy rather than a home brew to get off the ground. Tossed the buddypole and buddystick out, too many surprises over price and accessories required to make them work, not to mention the take them down to change bands. Tossed the hamstick for similar reasons, but not price. Looking intently at Hustler HF 6 band vertical that (it says in the blurb) won't need an external tuner. (Initial tuning, well, I may have to borrow an instrument if the O&M isn't helpful.) Also, the Hustler does not need radials if ground mounted which I can do easily here (within a foot or so to allow space for connections) and out of the way of the mower. Fingers crossed about that, we shall see. Also, while the Hustler won't do "nicely" for mobile, it'll be just fine for portable; 24 feet tall is a bit much for the pickup bumper under way. Tuners - When the time comes, the choice is likely to be a weather proof auto tuner for anything other than a dipole where an indoor tuner would be OK. Buy out deferred pending final selection of antenna. Power supply - As techsar suggests, will go with the MFJ 4225. Price differential is not a concern at this point and not needing a tuner for that antenna easily covers the cost differential. Radio selection is final, Kenwood TS480SAT as mentioned earlier. Don't pay list, there is quite a bit to be saved shopping around. Best I've found new is 905 against 995 from Kenwood directly. (Gotta have a look at Amazon, they might beat that and the site gets a couple pennies from a deal there.)
they may tell you you don't need radials on a vertical but they'd be wrong. other than that, I have heard good things about the Hustler.
RF Ground is what makes ANY of those Verticals, TALK... The better the RF Ground, the better they will TALK.... Radials will provide some RF Ground, HOWEVER, the number of these Radials is the Critical Factor in, "HOW WELL" the completed Antenna System will TALK..... If one puts 1 dozen Radials from the base of the Vertical, spaced around the compass equally, and each, longer than 1/4 wavelength of the Lowest Frequency the Antenna is designed to operate on, then it will be an adequate RF Ground for that Antenna, on ALL the Frequencies it is designed to be use on. This is the classic Marconi Antenna, where the RF Ground is designed to have a very LOW Impedance, on ALL Frequencies, down to the lowest Designed Frequency, of the Vertical Radiator. Less Radials, means higher Impedance, more Losses, and lumper Antenna Pattern, in both the Vertical and Horizontal planes. This is the tradeoff, for any Marconi type Antenna System.... Tuned Radials, are a much worse compromise, than a true Marconi RF Ground.... ....... YM, and RF Ground, MV.....
Hey ghrit...Congrats! KK4XXX / Extra over here. Been that way for a year and I STILL don't have more than a borrowed 10m rig for HF (although someone here has offered to loan me something that I have yet to take them up on...stupid pride...). If you have ANY intention of going Extra, do it now, and I mean RFN while the information is still swimming around in that noggin. The overlap is 85+% and you have invested a lot of time into it. There's going to be a lot of memorization but if you want that last little bit (for me it was bragging rights, flat out, the only reason I did it and I admit it) do it right away. Congrats though and I'm jealous of the set up. I need to finish book three and get out of some debt first.
@BTPost @Idahoser - Yep, that would be true about needing radials for best performance. Further checking with both Hustler and DX Engineering indicates that the HF 6 (or 6BTV) indicates that they will work without radials if ground mounted, however at a lower efficiency, meaning (I assume) WAY lower. I had initially thought that I could get away without an external tuner, but now think that would be a good thing to have given the (I think) higher mismatch. So, adding back a tuner to the buy list. Also, with the snow that comes around here, a ground mount won't be a good thing come winter, so I have incentive to get something else up before the snow flies. @DarkLight - Memory bank is full of other things right now. I have some paper in other disciplines that confer bragging rights, too, but waited a LONG time after opening the door for that. General was bad enough with memorizing certain features of band plans; my head still hurts. Given the huge additional frequency access available to general tickets over the tech, the extra few frequencies can wait until later. Good idea, tho', and I was being ridden hard to get the general at the same time as technician. I'm unwilling to advocate going for two for those contemplating getting a ticket, it can be intimidating for those not sure if it's something they want to do. ETA: The plastic is NOT flame proof, but is not resisting as hard as I thought it would. Yet. Radio, ps, tuner ordered. The antenna remains a fly in the ointment, needs more research. I've simply got to find a way to punch holes in this rock for a couple used telephone poles (if I can find them as easily as I think I can) for a wire.
Any of you guys using a windom? My trees are at the right distances to accommodate an off center feed point. Trees are flimsy, but I have a spinning rig that might work to launch a paracord lift line at one end and the other can go to the shed at roughly 8 feet. 30 feet might be doable on the other end. Will still want a vertical since I don't trust snow and ice loading on a wire in winter. I hate shopping, especially for things I know squat about --- BTW, I recently saw an article that said a reflector can be used with a straight wire NVIS below the antenna as a reflector. I'll try to find that and link it later. ETA: Found the link - DESIGN THE CLOUD WARMER NVIS BEAM ANTENNA
Not sure about the Windom, as I have never used them..... But the Straight wire blow a wire antenna will do exactly as you read about. It just neds to be 5% longer, electrically, than the wire antenna, and if you break it in the center with a Remote Relay, you can use that for a Radiation Pattern changer.
https://www.txarmymars.org/downloads/NVIS-Antenna-Theory-and-Design.pdf Page 12 has the reference for a low mounted NVIS antenna. The discussion is on a 75 meter wire, but should apply as well to shorter wavelengths. Windom antennas are essentially off center fed dipoles. Here's an article on them. Windom Antenna Home Page, and Handbook The attractive feature to me is that (they say) that the windom will operate without a tuner. Well, ok, but might need to change coils to change bands, I haven't figured that out yet. Every apple I've bit on this exercise seems to have a worm in it. That includes rumors (unconfirmed) that certain end fed wires will also work without much in the way of auxiliary stuff. Got my doubts about that.
This is a local flagpole base, that would allow you to mount to rock or concrete, with just sleeve anchors, would allow you to lay your mast down, when needed, and would allow for easy access repairs. This uses a worm screw driven by a square shaft. you could use a hand crank or power as needed. If you wish more pics, or model numbers, let me know.
that would greatly surprise me but don't let the need for a matching network bother you. That's all a tuner is, is an adjustable matching network. Only an antenna that has a feedpoint impedance of 50 ohms resistive doesn't need additional components to make your transmitter happy, and you're only going to find that on a select few antennas- a resonant inverted vee, or a quarter wave vertical is about the extent of it. And those are only matched on the design frequency, if you tune away from the design freq it's no longer perfectly matched, let alone trying to use it on another band. The addition of some coils or capacitors to match impedance to the transmitter is no reason to avoid a particular antenna. What I plan to put up if I eventually ever do get something up is a "doublet", which is nothing more than a 80m dipole fed with 450 ohm ladder line. It can be matched to the 50 ohms at the transmitter either through a link coupled tuner (inherently works for balanced line), or with a balun to transform balanced (ladder line) to unbalanced (coax) and then into a tuner either manual or automatic (current plan is to use the MFJ-949E); or it can be done with variable length feed line. I've seen an arrangement where various lengths of additional ladder line can be switched in or out to reach a desired length. All that's doing is letting the feedline length be the tuner, it's still a tuner. You can also manually plug in additional lengths of ladder line using those double-banana plugs. The difficulty there is you have to keep the ladder line from getting too close to metal or ground. In any case I have heard very good things about OCF dipoles, but I'd very much doubt it runs well without a tuner, and certainly not on multiple bands.
I can see that an OCF just might serendipitously run on more than one band without a lot of fiddling. Figuring out which ones it'll work on is beyond my ability at this point. One more reason for the tuner as a necessary bit for the base station, even when the vendor says it won't be needed. (Buxcomm as an example. "The BUXCOMM model 802134 Windom is an antenna that enables operation, 80 through 6 meters, without an antenna tuner. ") I'm just a natural pessimist, I suppose, but at this moment (subject to change) that one is high on the want list for a first skyhook at the house. Mobile, well, dunno yet, and I surely do NOT expect all band performance on the road. ETA: Hm. Maybe just to get started - 4010CD Here is the ideal solution for restricted communities apartment dweller small lots. and only 37 ft long. Here is the ideal solution for restricted communities [4010CD] - $89.95 : www.PacketRadio.com, Where Ham Radio Operators come to shop I can get the height and length they say it wants easily, not much more height than that becomes problematic. Length is not a problem, but center support will be difficult at best. Outside, I go NOW, to check some tree heights and distances.
another used radio, no promises whether it's still available, gotta be on the lookout, some things go quick. Kenwood TS-480SAT and another Icom cheap Icom 706 mk2 I've seen 949E's cheap lately too.
Ok, an update for the curious. Went with an MFJ 1775 antenna. Supposed to cover 40, 20, 15, 10, 6 and 2M. Knowing it's a Swiss Army knife sorta thing, I figured it would be a way to taste the hobby. So far, that seems true, but some trimming is not far off. Borrowed an MFJ 269 antenna analyzer in the hope it will make life easier. It does; for any others looking to follow my footsteps, plan on finding an analyzer, it will save untold hours. Spendy to buy, but Elmer has one. Took a while, full of fiddling and meddling, but got the analyzer to start giving me consistent readings with the twitchiness of the freq setting knob. But they are consistent, a good place to start. Side note, the antenna O&M gives some "typical" SWRs for an untuned, out of the box antenna at one freq in or near a ham band. WILDLY optimistic, gotta say, but not particularly surprising. So, went into data collection mode, picked a spread of freqs in each band and collected points to plot. (Didn't plot them, the trends are as obvious as my nose.) 40M - Resonance is below the band, should be easy to raise it with trimming. 20M - I don't think I can improve this at all, it shows close to resonance (2:1 or better) between 14.225 and 14.300. Outside of those freqs, the curve goes steeply up. 15M - Probably not much to be gained here, either. Using the arbitrary 2:1, the range is from 21.000 thru 21.375. Going away higher from that range, the curve rises slowly to 2.4:1 at the general ticket upper limit. 10M - Out of the box resonance is WAY below the ham range. This will take some hacking, maybe serious hacking. 6M - Also way below. Also to be trimmed. Worth noting, maybe, the 6M portion of the antenna is a separate pair of whiskers that act as a dipole, they are not on the trapped portion of the beam. 2M - Also a separate pair of whiskers. Since the xceiver won't do 2M and the 269 won't either, I'll probably never use it for that band. (Have an ht that does, so no need for the base antenna to function there.) Next step is finish the mast, put the antenna up a bit higher than it is now, then run another set of readings to confirm no significant change, then get out the nippers and make small bits of the big ones.
Nice. One good thing about antennae (antennas?) is you can never have too many. If you find some bands don't work so well, add a dipole or somethng for just that band (if you even care to use it). I have an MFJ-259, which is HF only (above 6m), I was under the impression that the 269 was the same thing but with VHF and UHF added (could be wrong). Also I have a SO-239 (the very inappropriately named 'UHF' jack) antenna connector, where the 269 has the 'N' style (better for higher freqs). [edit] just realized I gave bad info here, the 259 is HF plus VHF, so it does cover 2m. The 269 goes up to UHF. Also I misread your post is what led me to make this post, I see now your TRANSCEIVER doesn't do VHF, I was thinking you meant the analyzer didn't. Sorry!
No problem, you are correct about the 259B, it does 144 and so forth that I won't need for now. Update on the antenna. Over the last couple weeks, time hasn't been too available for meddling, and the pressure to do something was taken away by the power supply failure. (Replacement is due tonight via UPS.) So, today, did a bit more trimming of the spokes and have useable frequencies in all the bands it is supposed to cover (except 2M.) The 40M SWR is close enough to operate, under (my arbitrary cutoff of) 2:1 over a rather narrow range of frequencies, but it will work on 40, however limited. On 20M, it is also useable over about 400Khz, but SWR rises rapidly toward the edges of the general allowed band space. On 15M, good to go, top to bottom. On 10M, good to go, top to bottom of the license range. On 6M, again, like 40, there is a very narrow range of useable freqs as it stands now. I need to shift the range up on 6 a bit, which will happen with a bit more trimming and/or raising to operational height. If anyone really wants to see the final data, I'll be glad to post or send it. I did not record the spoke lengths, tho' perhaps I should for future reference. Worth noting is that the orientation of the boom makes a difference according to the meter, changing the horizontal angle does affect SWRs. At this point, the only nearby conductive materials are the nails in the siding and the gutter, all of 6 feet away. Oddly enough, the SWRs are lower when it's oriented that way. I've done nothing with the 2M spokes (yet and may never) since my ht will hit all the repeaters I have any interest in at the moment. That could change down the road a bit, ya never know.
yeah, if you plan to do anything more than repeaters on 2m, you'll probably want either a handheld (for satellites and/or fox hunts) or rotatable beam for "DX". You could even just put up a good antenna for the H/T for better coverage. I once had a mobile mag mount MFJ antenna that was both a 1/4-wave vertical on 6m and 5/8-wave on 2m. Some combinations of bands work out in such a way that this sort of thing is possible. There should have been a matching network to match a 5/8 to 50ohm, I'm not sure how that was done without messing up the 6m, but it did work. It's not likely you'd ever have a good single antenna that works on all those bands. VHF/UHF is even usually a separate input on the transceiver from the HF input, for this very reason. Two separate antennas, cables, inputs, just as if they were two separate transceivers. I haven't used one, but I understand they have diplexers and triplexers to allow this sort of thing, if you wanted to run two antennas through the same transceiver input.
See the edit in post #1 of this thread. Now that I have an operational shack, it's time to think about basic mobile and portable gear. (CB qualifies for both, but that's not the focus for this thread.) The working definitions, then: Mobile - capable of operating on the move, i.e., while driving. Portable - carried on your German Shepard's back, or usable when the vehicle is stopped and you can raise an antenna along side the trail or road. (This would include hand held transceivers in the field.) My path to mobile is simple, carry the handheld with me in the pickup. I'm going to improve performance with a roof mounted antenna (already here, waiting the mag mount for it) that will be tuned for both 2 meter and 70 centimeter bands, a very common combination. I have to think that an antenna deliberately tuned for the band will be better all around than the rubber duck that came with the hand held. Here in the mountains, it is sometimes difficult to hit the repeaters while away from home. Portable, for me is a ways off, but I want to be equipped minimally for next year's ham field day if possible. My base rig is designed to be vehicle mounted as well as on the table at home, so that (for me) is a given. Those with more experience should make suggestions as their experience dictates.
Heh. No breaker trips, but one of the ground fault interrupter sockets trips intermittently, but not on startup. Trips on key down (or up, or not at all, depending on whim.)
any opinions, I see some used gear on ebay, it a ICOM IC720A and includes a ST3B ANTENNA TUNER & ACTRON RS-20A power supply. they are asking $425 including shipping, I'm looking for something used to begin my ham journey, wondering if this is a decent radio and a fair price?
