Bees

Discussion in 'The Green Patch' started by permacamo, Apr 4, 2014.


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  1. cjsloane

    cjsloane Monkey

    Critical thinking. On what do you base this? Or is this just an ad hominum attack?

    Or perhaps we can go back to you being done. I'd rather not continue to discuss this since we seem to be talking past each other.
     
  2. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Physics. No direct sunlight= no heat advantage due to color. Unwanted heat in the dead of summer.
     
  3. cjsloane

    cjsloane Monkey

    If there is no advantage in winter, there is no disadvantage in summer.
     
  4. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Definition of AD HOMINEM. 1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect.

    Perone and his system are still a 3rd world way of life. His system does not meet the accepted actions of a Beekeeper in any part of the world that I know off but rather that of a re-wilder, thus he is no beekeeper.
    Selfishness of actions is the reason we have Africanized bees in the Americas now. A Perone Hive adds to the possibility of such bees and their continued spread of swarms. Perone is no Beekeeper he is the spreader of actions that are counterproductive to the life of animals and humans in the rural area. Ever been atacked by just normal bees?
    Would you open your gates and let your goats run wild or your sows?
     
  5. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Incorrect, physics and angle of the sun make the difference.
     
  6. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    No problem, this is not about you, this is about a discussion on a forum that has come down to experience, mine, v internet ramblings of others.

    You do not need to reply.

    I have more "chapters' to add to this forum discussion and others seem to read them without prejudices, only questions and not charges. I will continue with other post to start with the min. tools to be a beekeeper in a homestead manner.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
    kellory likes this.
  7. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    False. The dark color ONLY warms the hive due to absorbing sunlight. Yours is shaded. No heat advantage. You would do better to paint the ROOF dead flat black to heat the air below it, though it would be stripped away by the breeze. You are not conserving heat, you are creating heat. (Big difference). That same heat source increases when you want it least.
    With insulation of any kind, you are maintaining the status quo, and it requires much less energy to maintain a temp, than to change one. In summer, that increased heat could be deadly.
    By regulating with sunlight, you are using a weak heat source, when they need heat most, and a strong heat scource when they need it not at all. So if you shade it in winter, you don't help, and if you don't shade in summer they will roast. Physics. Insulation makes a lot more sense, than a convertible shelter, and an uneven heat source.
     
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  8. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Actually, that makes perfect sense. If you KNOW you could be subject to certain rules, it makes sense to build to comply. If a hive MUST be inspected, then being able to DO SO with the least disturbance make sense.
     
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    'Pears to me that beekeeping is an inexact science. I suspect a lot of the disagreements are climate based, and on the experience of the local beekeepers. So far as heat gain or loss goes, if it were me, I might use a black color in winter and a lighter color in the summer. I think I might rather that the bees were out gathering than fanning at home.

    BTW, sun angle is less critical in summer, heat will be absorbed from bright sky and reflections as well as direct gain from the sun. I might think about a white hive covered with a black cloth in winter.
     
  10. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Or as in the case of imported African bees when a selfish researcher by passed the inpection station and then the bees were released.
     
  11. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Yep, invasive species are a big problem.
     
  12. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    White vs. Black. Actually, white will reflect sunlight and not absorb or radiate heat as well. Black absorbs and radiates heat better. In the summer, you want white during the day to absorb less heat to keep the hive cooler and white at night is ok as you probably don't need to radiate during this night unless in a real hot climate where black at night would help a tiny bit to cool the hive. In winter you want black during the day on only the sides the sun would hit and white on the non-sun lite side and white at night to not radiate as much heat. (Need references, study black body radiation; standard thermo engineering stuff) Personally, I just paint mine white and try to strap some painted 1" foam board around them in the winter and usually close the entrance down some.

    Colony collapse: Often people fail to realize that correlation of things does not mean causation between things. But seldom is there a causal relationship between two things if there isn't a correlation. Basic rule of Design of Experiments.

    So, consider pesticides. Usage has actually gone down a small amount. Some of this is certainly from GPS precision farming practices (been there done that) and some likely due to the planting of pest resistant GMO crops requiring less pesticide employment.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    GMO pest resistant crops are up. (Source Washington Post)

    [​IMG]

    Is Bt corn the cause? Who knows? The increase in its usage and colony collapse does not necessarily make it the cause, but it probably can not be ruled out without more and different data.

    Look at colony collapse data. Not as bad a mites.

    [​IMG]

    Of course people have been dropping out of beekeeping and there has been a steady decline since the after WWII.

    [​IMG]

    Opening the hive. Hmmmm people have been doing that for with Langstroth style hives since the later 1800s, and if it is so bad, then how did hives proliferate to their peak in the 1950s? Seems there is little correlation between the "modern" beekeeping methods employed for the past 100+ years and the 1980's mite infestations and 2000's colony collapse. Lack of correlation would tend to discount that as a cause.

    As I mentioned before, I dug into the alternative hives and especially the top bars. Pain in the butt to harvest honey with those and honey yields will be significantly compromised because the comb can't be easily re-used. There was no comparative research beyond opinion the hive was any healthier and no one has yet provided any credible (decent Design of Experiments, peer reviewed, etc.) info to the contrary.

    Good stuff HK. Might be good to aggregate it all into one thread minus the noise (including mine) for a better signal to noise ratio. Thanks.

    AT

    AT
     
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  13. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    That sounds a bit like what I suggested.......:rolleyes:[OO]
     
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  14. cjsloane

    cjsloane Monkey

    Oscar Perone has been a beekeeper in his home country since 1964. You may not approve of this methods or hive design, but he is in fact a beekeeper.
     
  15. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Simple Semantics, owning bees does not necessarily make one a beekeeper.
     
  16. cjsloane

    cjsloane Monkey

    Fact vs opinion.
     
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

  18. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    So... What type of bees do you think Perone keeps?
     
  19. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Lots of good information not yet touched in this discussion.

    Bees require care, feeding and at times meds to be considered a viable survival source, as do other livestock.

    My stock insurance also has a rider for bees, imagine being charged with having a swarm kill a neighbors favored bull or swarming a kid on a tractor going down the road.

    As a PRANK a co worker's SIL once called me and said that my cattle were in the Road and he had hit and totaled his $100,000 ride.
    No problem I said, call my insurance co and then I hung up.

    Me, well I was in the hospital at that time with heart surgery, friends, gotta luv them.

    The friend? X Navy of course.
     
  20. cjsloane

    cjsloane Monkey

    I thought bees were at least likely to do any harm when they are in swarm mode. Hence all those pic like this:
    [​IMG]
     
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