Best Bullet Designs For SHTF

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by 3M-TA3, Dec 14, 2019.


  1. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Interested in thoughts about bullets that "do it all" in SHTF and survval situations. Outside of 22LR, most of what I have set back is in 5.56 and 7.62 FMJ military ammunition since it can be had in quantity at decent prices. I also reload and have a lot of brass, etc. for those primary (for me) cartridges.

    What would be the best bullet designs for defense, including against barriers and body armor, but would still be very effective for hunting? Naturally they would need a profile that would be reliable in a semi automatic.

    Remember that we are not bound by the various treaties that restrict our military.

    For 5.56 it looks like 77 grain SMK's might be the best answer, but don't know how well they would do for larger game.

    When we get to 7.62 it's much more open and where I'm mostly interested. Something like a Nosler Partition, an A-Frame, Grand Slam, or a Barnes X would clearly outshine an FMJ for game or assailants without body armor, but would their expansion make them less effective against body armor or barriers?

    Obviously bullets just don't bounce off armor and at the minimum getting hit by just about anything would cause broken ribs, etc., and put an attacker out of action at least temporarily, but when I'm defending my loved ones I prefer a lethal outcome so I don't have to do it all over again.

    My current plan is color coded mags for game optimized ammunition with everything else being FMJ's and that may be the best way to go, but still I think aout a "do it all and do it well" solution.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Never forget about loading up some sucker bullets that will blow up a rifle.
     
  3. Tempstar

    Tempstar Praeclarum Site Supporter+

    Forget body armor, aim for the thighs. Very vascular and a 7.62 will put them out of action permanently.That way you get to use the hunting ammo with crazy expansion properties to max effectiveness.
     
  4. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    any that fire reliably works for me
     
  5. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    For 5.56, ether the M-193 or the M-262 for general needs and fighting! For Hunting, I loaded up a metric shit ton of 77gr Black Hills Softpoints that do an excellent job across the board!
    For 7.62X51, I mainly use M-80 for general need and fighting, But, I have several loads for more specialized work, 165 Gr Swift Siroccos for most hunting needs, and the anti personal component is nicely met with these! I also purchased many thousands of Recycled "Black TIps" that were broken down and pulled from belts of Machine gun ammo, and I loaded up a bunch for the 7.62X51 and tried them out, they work amazingly well, so I loaded up several thousand! For .30 U.S-'06 Springfield, it's a gourmet feast of good stuff, Other then some VERY HOT "Black Tips" I run exclusively 3 loads of hunting ammo, 165 gr Scrioccos, 180 Gr Sciroccos, and a 220 Gr Norma Oryx, all loaded to best performance in two rifles!
    Outside of those, I have specific loads for secondary weapon systems to be used if needed, to include the .300 Win Mag, and one in the .338 Lapua Mags! I have a Bolt Action .50 BMG, but honestly, I ain't luggin that monster anywhere unless I have to, and the Mil Spec Loads I have for it do wonderfully as is, so no need to do anything there!
     
  6. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    I shoot what I can find in the dark.
     
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  7. sourdough145

    sourdough145 Tinker and thumb smasher...

    Wonder if different color glow in the dark primers would work to help find the "right" bullets for any situation.
    Just thinking, maybe I'll take out a patent, make enough money to afford having the right bullets....
    o_O:rolleyes::whistle::ROFLMAO:
     
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  8. I agree with tempstar's post (#3) I've been targeting the Femoral region when practicing with pistol and revolver. Cut the femoral artery, bleed out. Break the femur, immobile
     
  9. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Two thoughts, one type of bullet for defense, short term SHTF, etc. Some of the modern bullets can't be beat, like black tip and mil pulled 223. For reloading, for plinking and just plain being ornery, have many favorite cast bullets and with lead and wheel weight scrap, good for the rest of my life. If I had to depend on the round for my life, would try to stick to the Ma duece, since reality sucks, guess I am stuck with mil surplus or modern cartridges for all my much less optimum firearms. While not the absolute optimum load for the weapon, they are reliable and knock people down, although a 30-06 with a good game load will make them dead and not disabled.
     
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  10. sourdough145

    sourdough145 Tinker and thumb smasher...

    I like having a reduced set of bullet diameters. 308 is my favorite and use it in several guns, 308, 30-06 and 300blk. Love them all but my 300 blk is most fun. I can shoot pistol swingers by using plated 30 carbine bullet and H4198 for 1200fps... I can knock something down with 147gr mil pulls... or easily hunt with some partition bullets. .223 is great both for AR and bolt guns and cheap to reload in bulk. Great fun for ground squirrels. Have plenty of wheel weights to cast for the 45's... Way I look at it one center of mass to get their attention, then one to an unprotected debilitating location, apply as needed. as alway YMMV...
     
  11. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    As sourdough145 said, with cast bullets and resizing dies, a .310 cast bullet can be resized and lubed and used in 30-30, 30-06, 762, 765, and a half dozen other shells, likewise the .380 and a couple sizing dies will get you the .380, 38 special, 357, 9 mm luger, and a half dozen other shells. The 9 mm lugar is .355 so I resize the 380 for it and the other dozen 9 mm knockoffs.
     
  12. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    I've always been fond of the Nosler P. for hunting. That being said:
    Like a few others have mentioned don't sweat the body armor. One or two hits in the chest will still slow the baddie up-finish with a head shot, femoral or a core shot to the side. The vast majority of people wearing vests do not get the side plates.. The vast majority of my put up rounds are FMJ. You never know what you may be forced to fight with(pick up weapon) and I want to take feed problems out of the issue as much as I can. I do have 55 grn. SP and SP's in 7.62 both NATO and COMBLOC. @Ura-Ki mentioned AP bullets from pulls. Do that too, as much as you can scrounge at the gun shows or off the innerwebs-money orders only. 55grn FMJ will still put meat on the table, esp with a head/neck shot. So will .22lr Stingers;)
     
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  13. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    One thing to Dove tail in here, a lot of people operate under the misconception that body armor will stop most rounds and not effect the tango, this is NOT TRUE, a shot from any high power rifle, or fast moving pistol will put man on the ground amd take him out of the fight for a while! Dont need A.P. to punch through, a 5.56 at close range will crack ribs, and a 7.62 anything will break things and cause internal trauma, up to including a burst heart! Fact of the matter is, body armor Can save lives, BUT it's gonna hurt BAD!
     
  14. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Yep, F=MA as I remember from school. The acceleration thru a few inches or more of barrel, the reaction of the weight of the pistol or rifle, and the mass of the hand or shoulder tames the push back of the bullet to a point that it can be tolerated. BUT when the bullet hits the vest, all the energy is transferred to a single point in the vest in a very small fraction of a second. Plates and such try to spread it out, but it doesn't get rid of the energy. The old 30-06 had a muzzle energy of about 2600 foot pounds of energy. If you hit someone with a vest and the bullet is designed to not deflect, all of that energy is for all practical purposes transferred to the vest in thousands of a second. While he or she may not have a hole in them, it would most likely reduce their chances of shooting back. The 9 MM Lugar and the 45 ACP both have about 400 foot pounds and the 223 has about 1000 foot pounds. Nice chart here. Rifle Ballistics Summary All things equal, it gives some ideas about at least the bruising you would get if the vest stopped the bullet. A similar chart for handguns is this one. Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version

    He also lists the felt recoil of the weapons. Handgun Recoil Table

    Rifle Recoil Table

    I don't know if anyone else gets this way, but going down the rabbit hole and seeing the basic data interests me. Don't mean to hijack the thread or make it too technical
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  15. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Well,I don't have all that hardware or zippy things to go with,But all of em are dipped in hog fat !!!
     
  16. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Sounds like we're talking rifle bullets.
    I mostly keep M193, M855 and ss109 for 5.56 rounds.
    From 1998 to 2001 I tested 223/556 at velocities from close range out to 400yd I found at close range fmj didn't act like fmj under 150yd. I found unexpected fragmentation and breakup, even out to 400yd.
    Found that ballistic tip and soft points were more likely to turn into metal spray.
    Found that when the ballistic trajectory was lost, the bullet hit in a tumble there was little difference between M193 and a ballistic tip or SP or HP. Found any bullet with a crimp canal broke up the most in a tumble.
    For example a 55gr ballistic tip through a wind shield lost a substantial amount of mass, 1/3 up to half possibly. Where a M193 mostly stayed intact.
     
  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    ballistics1.
    ballistics2.

    308.
    Loaded with Varget.
     
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  18. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Then, on days when you really want to rain hell...there's Alco.
    (190 gr. steel tip)
    alco3.
    alco1.
    alco2.
    But at about $1 per bullet, it will cost you. Brass, powder, primer are not included. ;)
     
  19. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Somebody shook the firearms tree and all kinds of monkeys fell out. God I love this gun porn and love reading the data on different bullets and loads.[campfire] Using the data shown above, just changing the bullet shape and a little added velocity would give you almost 1/4 ton difference in the impact energy at 500 meters. Sounds like you get what you pay for, but while it would be nice in ruining someones day in a vest, the metal tiped one might not be good for hunting, want massive holes, not neat thru and thru.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  20. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+

    Years ago I knew a guy that worked in a machine shop near the liquor store I managed. He saw a couple of NRA magazines that I was reading and we got to talking guns. The owner of the shop didn't mind employees doing small jobs or projects, as long as they paid for any materials and it didn't interfere with business. He told me about loading the computerized lathe with steel bar-stock and setting it to make steel bullets...buckets of steel bullets. He even showed me a few examples, they looked just like a copper-plated FMJ 7.62 bullet...except they were steel. I told him that those bullets would be hard on the rifling of a gun, unless he coated it with a Kevlar loaded paint... he just nodded and smiled. I wish that I had some of those bullets. I also wonder what other black projects he might have been working on. A couple of years later the owner of the shop died and it shut down, and I haven't seen that guy since.
     
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