Beyond silencers, destructive devices

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by oil pan 4, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Say yes to DD

    6 vote(s)
  2. Say no to DD

    0 vote(s)
  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    While I thread every muzzle and buy a can for every threaded muzzle what do I do next?
    I have too many "22" cans as it is. Too many is how you know when to stop. Gm22, gemtech mist, gemtech sfn, rebel alliance hv 22.
    Add a 30 cal, 9mm or 2, a 45 and I will be set.
    Next step, DDs. Obviously an m203.
    There's all kinds of interesting stuff they can or could fire.
    But there's a slight problem. The government decided all your Hi-Lo type 40mm low velocity shells are some kind of "dangerous low explosive" even when they have no projectile or an inert chalk powder projectile.
    Most of the smoke canisters and all the interesting stuff uses hi-lo.
    Now you get an inert empty shell, say with an inert chalk projectile and make it live with a 38s&w blank.
    There's no DD dealer in this part of the state. So the only way to get one is make it, buy a bare LMT receiver, register that S/N as both a 37mm and 40mm DD with a barrel length range of 7 to 12 inches, as those are the shortest and longest I have seen and wait for the tax stamp to come back before buying tubes and ammo.
    Don't say buy a 37mm flare launcher with out registering it and use it to shoot x, y and z projectiles because it's considered a DD at that point even with something as semi harmless as bean bag rounds.

    I think an rpg7 might be fun. Do it kind of the same way as the 203, but buy a demilled one, register it, get the tax stamp back assuming the demilled rpg has a S/N then buy a repair tube and make it live again, or vice-versa as the repair tube may have the S/N. But the only 2 things I have located to make it go bang are a 7.62x39 training sub caliber devices that fire a single shot AK round at about the same trajectory as a rocket round.
    The second one I occasionally see is a training blank. It just goes bang, really loud. Doesn't appear to be reusable. Good for scaring the shit out of stray dogs maybe.
    And that's it. They're cool but not much point in getting one if that's all I can find to shoot out of it.
    I guess the Russians figured live ammo is best for practice, no chalk rounds.
    It's so simple a Pakistani dirt farmer who can't read or write their own name can use one.

    Something to think about, if they can call a low velocity 40mm hi-lo with inert projectile a "dangerous low explosive that needs to be stored in a bunker and can't be shipped by normal means" what's stopping them from declaring all small arms ammo a dangerous low explosive?

    You are probably on another government watch list just for looking at this.
    duane, Ura-Ki, Bandit99 and 2 others like this.
  2. Gafarmboy

    Gafarmboy Monkey+++

    You're working way too hard. Work smart. Get to know your local welding shop and CNC shop.
    Ura-Ki, oldawg and HK_User like this.
  3. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Artillery Events — North South Skirmish Association

    There is plenty of artillery out there that isn't on any registry. You can build a really fine and functional modern mortar with a base with no firing pin and a touch hole for ignition. Loaded with black powder from the muzzle, it isn't covered by NFA34 or GCA68.

    I have seen guys dropping fused loads down 60mm mortar tubes, like fireworks mortars, but this is pushing the rules on "fixed ammunition."
    Ura-Ki and HK_User like this.
  4. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    There is also a large appendix in NFA34 (that I can't find on my phone) that contains a list of interesting items that have been removed from the NFA registry.
    Too old, too odd, no ammunition available, but all still really cool, and now available for sale like any (not C&R) other firearm.

    When I find it I'll post it.
    Ura-Ki and Witch Doctor 01 like this.
  5. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    All sorts of fun to be had once you manage to clear all the hoops and red tape!
    I LOVE my M-203, and getting shells is lots of fun!
    Honestly, it's easier to get a Canon then a DD, but then it's also way more expensive!
    duane likes this.
  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I'm trying to stay with kind of modern stuff.
    I got no problem taking an inert or demiled item registering it as a DD then making it live when it's all legal.
    The charges for an illegal one are not registering a NFA weapon obviously, and then another one they like to charge people with is possession of a WMD or hoax WMD if it's an inert one. I think this one only sticks If you aren't doing anything with it and you can only afford a public defender.
  7. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    40mm is the way to go. Form 1 M203 receivers are easy to acquire with LMT being the most plentiful and cheapest costing while maintaining quality. UNAMMO out of Arizona seems to be the most consistent retailer of 40mm chalk ammo. They cost about $10 each when you buy a 100 round case. The most recent case I bought was advertised and shipped with the .38 S&W blank not inserted into the 40mm case. Just insert it when you fire it or use some adhesive (I use DAP) to glue the blank into the shell prior to firing so you don't drop the blank in the grass. I have not been notified of any storage law changes or additional requirements for them when so separated. Also, you don't have to wait until you have a stamp to buy the ammo, you can buy it any time.

    My next project is an M79 grenade launcher, but I've too many irons in the fire right now so I will probably start off with the barrel (full size not those "jungle barrels" you find on gunbroker that are actually demilled barrels) to ensure I have one the correct size when I do a form 1. I talked to an ATF agent before about this and he said that Constructive Intent would not apply if I sent off the Form 1 paperwork as soon as I acquired the receiver while in possession of the barrel as the Form 1 is Constructive Intent, if you can follow that reasoning.

    I haven't seen any demilled RPG kits for sale or any rounds available, training or otherwise. As far as goberment watch list, I'm pretty sure anyone who's a member of a gun, survivalist, christian, small government, or free speech forum is already on a watch list.
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Real M79s are real expensive.
    I could buy the LMT, send off $200 to nfa, buy a rifle to put it on, a case of ammo for each weapon, buy a barrel and a spare and still have spent a lot less than I would have if I bought an M79.
  9. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    Yes, M79s are expensive, but they are classic weapons. Barrels run $3500 and complete receivers run $4-5 thousand. After all is said and done, you'll have about $8-9 thousand for a Form 1 M79. I've seen Form 4 ones go for $14 thousand when they come up for sale, which is rarely.

    I got to fire an M79 in basic training back in 89' (a Drill SGT brought his privately owned one to the M203 range) and I was surprised to see the 1st Cavalry Division using them in Iraq in 04'-05'. NFA items aren't cheap compared to other firearms, but they sure are fun. Of course not having a wife (she ran off while I was in the Army, literally, I haven't heard from her since) and no kids, leaves me more money than most for fun things.

    If you decide to go with an M203, then let me know I have a couple of extra full size 40mm barrels for mine that maybe we can work out a deal.
    oil pan 4 likes this.
  10. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Whats the length and are they used?
  11. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    I could part with one, they are all 12" serviceable used tubes with the extension and handguard.

    I've mounted and fired them with no problems.
  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Howuch do you want for one?
  13. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    $200 shipped for a fellow monkey and I'll look in my parts box to see if I have any extra quadrant sights or mounts but not promises.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Yeah I don't have anything sight wise and at $10 to $20 per pop it would be nice to be able to hit stuff.
    Oh darn this means I will have to build or get another upper to act as a tube holder.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  15. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    Your'e in luck. I found an extra quadrant sight, a1/a2 barrel mount kit, and jungle sling kit. The quadrant sight mounts on a fixed carry handle and will not work with a detachable one as the tightening knobs are in the way, although I have seen "spacer kits" being sold on gunbroker that is suppose to fix that but I haven't tried one.

    The barrel mounting kit will work on either the 20" barreled a1 or a2 rifle, if you are mounting it on a carbine then you will need one with the grenade launcher cut on the barrel and the newer Knight's Armament quick detach GI mount which can go from $50-200. Just keep your eye out and I'm sure you can find one floating around cheap enough.

    The sling kit is the older 80's one that has the triangle wire clip that goes through the front sight and the small nylon strap that weaves through the a1/a2 buttstock.

    Also you can get a "stand alone" kit for the grenade launcher. There are various models, I have a FAB Defence model that is okay, but FAB Defence customer service is total crap. These kits really give M203s a new life.
    oil pan 4 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  16. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Yeah need a barrel, sight, sling might be good if the sling holds a few 40mm rounds.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  17. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    If you want it PM me.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  18. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I'm thinking get a proper barrel mount M203 and hang it under a full length 20 inch old school carry handle upper.
    Every week or so I see a real nice colt or bushmaster 20 inch carry handle upper go fairly cheap.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  19. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    20200201_001026[1]. Her is my M203 mounted on a 14.5" carbine with the newer Knight's style mount. It's a two stamp setup (SBR & DD).
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  20. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Hmmm,Spikes lower?
    chelloveck likes this.
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