Black Powder .50 Cal Lesson

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by deMolay, Mar 5, 2019.


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  1. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    Love the Kit Carson testimonial on the Evans, "At 20 Paces I shot the eyebrows off my wife" She must have hated it when he said, come Hon, I got another show lined up for tonight better get dolled up to go. The Evans Repeating Rifle
     
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  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    A greased Patched Ball Loading Block and Paper Powder Cartridges make all the difference in attaining 3 shots/Min loading....
    Was watching Mell Gibson in "The Patriot" and he had such a setup on him, when he left his Burning Home, to retrieve his Oldest Son from the British...
     
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  3. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    I use the British cleaning routine. Plug the flash hole with a stick, pour boiling water down the bore until full, dump out in designated area, repeat. With the metal still HOT, it's easy to get the remaining water out after a quick swabbing. This'll do between battles.
     
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  4. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    These Colts have a multi leaf rear sight, most marked at 100/300 and 400/600! Amd the front blade can be driven left or right a little, mostly for zero! The really savy shooter would file his front blade down and could expect close to 700 yards with a proper charge and minie ball!
     
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  5. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    Yes I usually use the hot water, but was out in my shop which has no HW so just used solvent cuz I was wanting to get to the bottom of my problem.
     
  6. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    Yes I recall a family shoot, when I was a teenager, my Dad was still alive then. We were up on the mountain at my brothers. It was basically an all day guy event. Shoot then a BQ and a few drinks. My brother brought old Betsy with all the gear. And of course I wanted a go at the Holy Black stuff. We were shooting clay pigeons at 50 75 yds. and I had been doing ok. All I was doing was plowing dirt with the muzzle loader. And older brother was having a good laugh. My Dad sidled up, and explained about the right quantities of powder and range etc. Things improved greatly. When I asked my older brother how much powder to use he decided to have some fun so I was just putting in enough to get the lead out and could not figure it out. But he taught me the lesson.
     
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  7. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    Right...so where to begin...
    First I have been shooting and collecting muzzleloaders for over 20 odd years now and I have a modest collection of both original and re-worked or home built replicas.

    It is always smart to run your ramrod or cleaning rod down the bore of a "new to you" gun to see if it was left loaded...be sure to check for priming or if it was left capped first however.
    During hunting season , I have at times , left my muzzleloader , loaded...If I do so , I'll thread a piece of red cloth between the ramrod and barrel , near the muzzle to serve as a reminder that gun is loaded.
    ( Never store a gun primed or capped )

    If you need to take the breechplug off , which I have done and you can do at home...Kroil is you friend.
    Well Kroil and the breechplug wrench sold by Dixie's Gun Works for $15-$20 odd dollars...LOL

    Rates of fire :
    When in a good "shooting groove" and not engaging in gabbing at the shooting line or giving a loading and firing demonstration , I get about 3 shots per minute.
    Please note that I try to shoot like Daniel Boone or Kit Carson...so
    I shoot from the bag...
    Use a loose patch and ball combo...
    Prime from my main horn...
    I try my best not to have use a "short starter" and I do no use a bullet or ball board.
    In my research I have not found much evidence of those items being commonly used on the frontier , by most folks.
    This is not to say that you can not find references to either in the 19th century , but , those are mostly in relation to target shooter , back east in the late 1840's -1890's period of muzzleloading.

    To load faster if you have a military gun , use a paper cartridge.
    Again please note that this was common among the military , but not so much with civilian shooters of the time period.

    Or you can load without a patch...this will greatly speed up your loading , but with a loss of accuracy.

    Speaking of accuracy....
    Back in the day , most folks used a much looser patch and ball combo...which still works and is quicker to load , but not quite "Friendship Indiana" match grade accuracy.
    That said it is more than accurate for casual matches and hunting.

    Just where the musket got its reputation for bad accuracy is really quite simple.
    The military wanted lead in the air...lots of lead...So paper cartridge , no patch and a very undersized round ball.
    This along with combat shooting in general and a lack of training or practice , led to not so accurate shooting.
    With a proper size round ball and patch....100 yard hits are easily done ( with practice )

    Regarding sights ...
    Most originals that I have ( 30 odd ) , have low a front sight , like shotgun bead low , and a low "V" or "U" notch rear sight or perhaps a "Buckhorn" sight...again set low.
    Now not everyone can be a Timothy Murphy , but he did some fine shooting with sights like the above.
    I , myself have shot at and hit many a target at 200 yards....with practice one can hit , hunt and do remarkably well with such "primitive" sights.
    Andy
    DSC05463.

    P1120485.JPG

    Sights.
     
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  8. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    I never had any experience with blackpowder firearms when I started work at a gunshop. We had several cheap BP percussion cap rifles that needed cleaning and the first was turning out to be a real pain. It was rusty and was loaded. I tried and tried to get a bullet puller to work, but I couldn't get it to catch on the bullet. So I came up with a brilliant idea to just shoot the loaded bullet out. I started very carefully and with some nervousness with the first #11 cap and nothing. I kept going, loading cap after cap, losing my nervousness until cap number 11. I was in the small room with the test fire tunnel while doing this. Cap number 11 successfully set it off, and it was more like a bomb going off than a rifle. It turns out that it was triple loaded and as I stumbled out of the room covered in soot and smoke, I was amazed I had all my body parts intact.
     
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  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Lucky mf, buddy. Why did you not pull the breech plug?
     
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  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    You were lucky you didn't blow yourself up... SERIOUSLY......... First thing to do with a BP Firearm of unknown origin, and condition, is to take the Ramrod and test the depth of the Bore... Run the Ramrod down the bore, and mark the Muzzle when it bottoms out, then remove the Ramrod from the bore, and lay it along side the barrel, and see if it measures clear down to the Touch Hole or Nipple Horizontal Plug... If yes, then it has a Clear Bore... If NOT, then you have an Unknown Blockage, that needs to be cleared... A wise BP Smith, would pull the nipple, and or the Touch Hole Plug, and then use HOT Water to clean what ever BP OR Powder is behind the blockage, and flush it out, being careful to inspect the Hot. Water, coming back out of the Bore, for and discoloration that would indicate a Powder was present... After such a Flushing and no more Color in the Hot Water showing, there are a couple of ways to try and remove any Projectile from the bore...
    1st is to replug the Touch Hole Plug and put an Air Pressure Adapter into the Nipple Hole. the measure the position of the blockage, using the RamRod. Remove the Ramrod and with the barrel in a Safe Direction, blast the bore with 120 PSI of Air, thru the adapter, and remeasure the Blockage, and see if it has moved. If Yes, Repeat, untill the blockage is cleared, if NO, then it is time to think about Plan B... Using a Zert Fitting Adapter in the Nipple Hole, use a Grease Gun to force the Blockage from the Barrel... The last Resort in this process, is to get a Breach Plug Wrench, and remove the Barrel from the Stock, and remove the Breach Plug, and then using the Ramrod, push the blockage back thru the BEACH...
    Then inspect the Bore for issues in the Rifling, and erosion, back near the Touch Hole.... After inspection, reassemble the Barrel, Breach Plug, and Stock... and start from scratch...
    NEVER, NEVER, EVER, use a Cap to try and set OFF any Unknown Powder Charge in a BP RIFLE, for EXACTLY the reason, you ran into in this case...
    You just NEVER know what some other previous Yahoo, or multiple Yahoos have done to the FireArm, previous to it showing up at your shop...
    The original Ramrod Test, should have shown, and been your FIRST CLUE, that this FireArm had a serious Issue with a plugged Bore..
     
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  11. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    That's my standard proof load on a new BP shotgun barrel. 3x standard powder charge and 3x shot charge. I only do double proof on BP rifle barrels and original BP shotguns. :) I fire them while safely behind concrete walls with the breech plug backed up against railroad ties or the barrel on a sled. After firing I measure the barrel with a micrometer to see if there has been any diameter change.

    You didn't say for certain in the barrel was intact after this incident.

    ??
     
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  12. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I sure hope you don't stack them. Triple powder behind triple shot, well, maybe OK if you like that sort of thing, but powder/shot/powder/shot is a LOT more hazardous, obviously. That said, remind me to be elsewhere.
     
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  13. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    No, not stacked. That wasn't exactly clear in the OP's report either.

    The stacked load thing does make me curious about how an unseated stacked load or two would react. I have the space to test this. Hmmmmm? Really gives new meaning to "safe space." Camera could be shielded, and I could stay in the tower. Fifty years with BP and I'm just not that curious.
     
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    True, but he couldn't see how it was loaded. Fact remains, he's lucky to still have a face. Yeesh, some folks do stuff I might have done 60 years ago. (Dunno how I managed to pass the stupid age.)
     
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  15. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Fortunately BP IS VERY FORGIVING, when firing an overcharged loading by using to much Powder, in a Barrel made with modern Steel... If you overcharge the loading, but still just use a Single Standard BP Projectile, what happens is the Powder Charge burns from the Touch Hole forward, and forces the unburnt Powder down the barrel, in front of the Flame Front, but behind the Projectile, until that Projectile leaves the Barrel, and that point any unburnt Powder just blows out on the ground, in front of the barrel, or burns in the air in front of the Muzzle in a BIG Powder Flash.. Since BP Burn Rates do not change much with Pressure, it is almost Impossible to overload a Modern Steel Barrel, with REAL BP, and a single Projectile.. DO NOT TRY THIS with modern Smokeless Powders, as their Burn Rates very GREATLY with any increases in Pressure, and can over-Stress any Barrel, even with modern Steel or Not... It is also not wise to use FFFFG BP in a Rifle as a Main Charge Powder... as burn Rates of BP IS MOSTLY DETERMINED BY Grain (Granule) Size, and not much else... The finer the Powder the faster it burns...
     
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  16. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    What happened to using a sheet metal screw welded to a steel rod with a T handle on the end .?
     
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  17. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Likely, the OP was using one of the "Spiral Ball Puller" and was trying to remove a MiniBall, or sum such Projectile... because it was never recovered, he and we will never know....
     
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  18. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Like this?
    [​IMG]
    I learned how important it was to use a centering guide on the screw end of the rod.... and got really lucky.
     
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  19. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    I tried the worm/screw several times did not work. It did not work because it was the end of a broken of brass brush wedged into the breech plug blocking the touch hole. Luckily for me.
     
  20. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    How did the rifle turn out?
     
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