Bowe Bergdahl

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by CaboWabo5150, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Hell's coming with me

    This situation makes me sad for the state of our Country. Seems like a whole lot of people want to hang the guy - right now. And the disturbing part, is who is yelling the loudest. Of course the bleeding heart liberals cheer for his release, and so do I. I am happy when any non violent human is released from captivity. But to hear those on the right that claim to champion the Constitution, those who yell the loudest about protecting the Bill of Rights, seem to forget about the concept of due process. As an enlisted Army puke ( I'm a Marine, so if you're in the Army - you're a puke, sorry bout' yer luck ) he is not only subject to the Bill of Rights, but also subject to the UCMJ which also has provisions that are similar to the 5th and 6th Amendments. So instead of yelling "TRAITOR" from the comfort of your chair, I'm talking to you Ann Coulter, Shawn Hannity, and many others, how about you try to help by, investigating, almost in the way that a "journalist" would some truthful information that can be used in a trial. And then if the man is found guilty of desertion, say what you will.

    But for now all I have heard is that some of the men in his unit have said that he deserted his post. And supposedly he left some type of letter behind. As for right now - all of that is hearsay. Let me tell you, war is indeed hell. And he may have walked away to clear his head, or blow off some steam, or find a place to rub one out. And some Taliban guys found an easy mark. Afghanistan is one of those places where you cannot see who your enemy is until he opens fire on you. For the last 3 months he may have been feeding you chow, and today he's wearing a suicide vest. You may have been training him to clear houses with the ANA, and today he turns his weapon on your friends and you. Just sayin' - we don't know what happened.

    Bill Clinton said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - Does that make it true ?
    Obama said " If you like your insurance, you can keep it" - Does that make it true ?
    Harry Reid say's Clive Bundy is a domestic terrorist - Does that make it true ?

    They say 6 men were killed looking for him. Really? Oh, yes, 6 men died, and they may have actually been looking for Bergdahl, or they may have been just out on a patrol, or they may have been sent into someplace they were not prepared for by an inexperienced LT. Or sent on a suicide mission ( without their knowledge ) by the CIA. And the Bergdahl situation was just what they needed to explain the loss. Never fully believe the "official report" that comes out of a hot zone where lives have been lost.

    Fox News reports that some "secret documents" prove that Bergdahl converted to Islam while in custody. Okay, he was in a cage held captive by fundamental Islamics who preach convert or die. What choice did he have. Die ? Not much chance of getting out alive then. If given that choice most of us could pretend to convert to Easter Bunny worship.

    Even the Pentagon say's they cannot verify how Bergdahl came to end up in Taliban custody. But I am sure at this moment they have their best investigators working on that.

    So is the guy a deserter ? Maybe. A traitor ? Maybe... An American, yup... So unless he turned his weapon on this comrades, and really - even if he did, as an American citizen and soldier he has the right to a trail, to be proved guilty. Not declared guilty because he was accused.

    And if found guilty, then sentenced accordingly - and the UCMJ is very specific about that.

    I'm just getting sick of people on the news and online regurgitating things that they have "heard" as fact. Not just in this story, but in most stories. The truth gets lost 2 seconds after something happens. Like the only reason Trayvon Martin was shot is because he was black. Which is bullcrap.
    chelloveck, BTPost, Yard Dart and 2 others like this.
  2. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Hell's coming with me

    I'm usually a fan of Bill OReilly, but now he's saying Bergdahls father looks like a muslim because of his beard....

    REALLY ???

    Then what about these guys ?? What say you Bill ??

    chelloveck, JABECmfg and Minuteman like this.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    We owe this kid time enough for the truth to find it's way out of the fog of innuendo and rumor. Those that are for or against him and his story will either look good or stupid as is right. What I hope happens is not what Benghazi has turned into, a political nightmare as bad as zerocare.
    chelloveck, Yard Dart, BTPost and 2 others like this.
  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Alaskachick is of the mind that she is happy he has been released, and can return to his family, country, and friends, alive. We both are reserving judgement on the rest of his issues until the appropriate Judicial Entity makes it's PUBLIC Determination. We both feel Mr. Pres. got bought cheap, as well as broke the Law, and should be Tried for that Offense. ...... YMMV.....
    JABECmfg and Georgia_Boy like this.
  5. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Cabo, I think you're more generous of spirit than am I concerning Bergdahl. I'm not in the camp calling for his head on a platter, but I would like to see a court martial to simply determine the facts of the case. The situation warrants that, at least. If nothing more, Bergdahl DESERVES a court martial for his own sake, to clear the air, and to reveal the actual facts of the situation. Otherwise, there will always be a cloud of suspicion over his head until the end of his days. If he is found guilty of deserting a guard post in a combat zone, he should spend most of the rest of those days in Leavenworth. To be entrusted with the lives of your fellow Soldiers or Marines, and to turn your back and walk away for whatever reason, is the worst sort of betrayal. I can't imagine any mitigating considerations that would excuse that action; if that is what he did. The proper stage for this to play out though is in that court, and not in the media.

    Unless he was attacked and dragged from his guard post by the Taliban, I find little sympathy in my heart for him for the trials he has suffered these past five years, or the future consequences he may suffer for his actions. I also find little sympathy in my heart for the couple - Caitlan Coleman and Joshua Boyle - being held in Afghanistan since 2012. They willingly walked into Taliban held territory - a young American/Canadian couple, and she was pregnant at the time; believing (if the young lady's mother's published account is correct) that if they treated other people well, they would reciprocate. It sounds like natural selection at work. I have sympathy for the child, born into captivity in Afghanistan, but little to none for the parents.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  6. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Let's keep the subject on him instead of unrelated stories. Bill Klinton.s womanizing has nothing to do with this. The man did walk out the gate w/o his weapon. What happened next is unknown as of now. My old Marine thinking says that he deserted or was at least was UA/AWOL.
    Georgia_Boy, ghrit and CaboWabo5150 like this.
  7. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Hell's coming with me

    I have no doubt he will face court marshal. He deserves it, and the families of the men who were lost deserve it. If nothing else to hopefully bring truth and closure to the events that took place. My point of the entire post was to vent/rant about the media and online idiots who are calling for him to swing from a tree branch by the neck before he ever gets his due process.

    And BTPost --As for the Prez. breaking the law.. What's new ? That clown gets away with it almost daily now. And the masses still treat him like royalty. It's total B.S. The movie "Idiocracy" is coming true...
    Mountainman, Sapper John and tulianr like this.
  8. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    The court of public opinion tis where fact and fallacy blur and any and all things are suspect.
    Worst part of this is ... maybe only the ex-captive really knows the truth.
    chelloveck, tulianr and CaboWabo5150 like this.
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    At the very least, he should request an Article 32 hearing, if the higher commands don't mandate it. So far, he's been essentially convicted by the media (and his parents along with him.) This approach must not stand ahead of an investigation.

    And he's refused to talk to his parents? Wassup wid dat?
    chelloveck and tulianr like this.
  10. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Did I miss something ? What media outlet has called for his execution?
  11. marlas1too

    marlas1too Monkey+++

    a skunk is still a skunk so don't go calling it a lamb. have you asked why he was promoted twice while he was in so called captivity and want to bet he gets another now that he is back in the US. just look at the captives in all the wars and you tell me does he look under fed. hes not a hero a hero stays with his fellow soldiers no mater what IMHO
  12. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Hell's coming with me

    I have seen many reports saying that he deserted. That is a serious accusation during a time of war. Not something to be thrown around lightly. Article 85 section c. of the UCMJ: "Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death..."

    I'm not one of those saying the man is a hero. At best he's a dip$hit who wandered into the wrong place. And it sounds like, if the accusations are true, it was a habit of his. But he still deserves his day in court. In the civilian World if somebody is accused of murder, even if there is an eye witness, that person is still referred to as "the alleged killer". Benefit of the doubt, until proven guilty, is one of the things that makes us better than the North Korean Gov't, or Taliban.

    Here is one clip that just rubbed me the wrong way.

    tulianr likes this.
  13. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    I think he should have a hearing as soon as possible in whatever mode of military justice is required; however, when I hear things like the pentagon/military had the guys in the unit sign an NDA to not discuss what they new and we couple this with Trading the 5 really bad guys as well as Obama taking the victory lap while a Marine languishes in Mexico for taking a wrong turn with some guns in his car and the government seemingly does nothing to help in that instance while the illegal alien superhighway is being created for the "dreamers", I am sorry, but this all has less to do with Bergdahl and more to do with frustration with an administration gone wild and a President who acts like a tsar.
    BTPost, tulianr, Brokor and 4 others like this.
  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yeah, trading 5 Taliban leaders for his release is just BAD, no matter how you dice it. Now that this door is opened, who can say they won't be looking for more to kidnap? Also, what's the real story? Nothing good can come of this.

    I don't think we can ever close this door.
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Gotta think that there's a difference between an individual going outside the wire and inviting capture vs. being kidnapped. (If indeed that's what happened as the rumor mill says.) Capture of soldiers as POWs are in a different category, and most likely would create the opportunity for swaps; the door is opened.

    Somehow, I think the Taliban or its sympathizers would have a difficult time taking prisoners for two reasons. I am not convinced that they have the resources to overrun an allied unit in any situation. Secondly, they have a mandate to kill all infidels which surely includes all the military arrayed against them.

    Capture and ransoming civilians is a different question, and one that can happen anywhere world wide, war theaters included.

    Yeah, the real story is still to be told.
    chelloveck likes this.
  16. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Hell's coming with me

    I know it's a fantasy but I would like to think that while at Gitmo, these guys had some sort of trackers implanted. And somewhere over Afghanistan there is a drone circling with orders to kill on detection. For now those guys are in Qatar, but that won't last.
    Yard Dart, tulianr and kellory like this.
  17. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    It would be nice if the powers to be were that smart; and who knows? Maybe someone did think ahead.

    Kerry Hints at Drone Threat to Taliban in Swap
    The U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry hinted over the weekend that five Guantanamo Bay detainees released in exchange for an American soldier could be killed by drone strike if they return to the battlefield.

    Republicans say the Taliban members, some of whom were senior commanders, are likely to return to Afghan conflict after the year they are compelled to stay in Qatar, which brokered the prisoner swap and has promised to monitor the five men.

    But Kerry told CNN that the men were also being closely monitored by the U.S., which has "the ability to do things" if the terms of the arrangement with Qatar were violated. Although he did not overtly refer to drone strikes, he said the five men would be liable to get killed by the U.S. if they returned to the ranks of the Taliban.
    Kerry Hints at Drone Threat to Taliban in Swap |
    CaboWabo5150 likes this.
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I can see no better reason to make a couple more martyrs than having them evade Qatarian security and go back to the stans.

    That said, for Kerry to open his yap and possibly expose some OPSEC just ain't right. We can only hope it isn't an MT threat as most of zero's henchmen are wont to do.
    tulianr and Brokor like this.
  19. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    He should be held accountable for his actions, if it is found that he deserted then he should be held accountable. Some say Bowe has paid enough by being held by the Taliban and should be left unpunished. I don't agree with that. Why on earth was he promoted when he was being held captive? I have heard "tin-foil" speculations that he was undercover, I don't believe this but either way, if he is found guilty of desertion, I do not think he should get back pay or any pay.

    As for his parents, dear old Dad should have known that thanking Allah would not be a good thing. I think it is sad that they have had to go into hiding because of threats. I saw a headline today that the son won't speak to the parents. Who knows what is really going on.

    As for the video @CaboWabo5150 attached, I don't know who is more repugnant- Hannity or Coulter, I won't listen or watch either. I don't think they have the counties best interests at heart, they certainly don't make people feel good. As for the dear President, ....... why the earlier deal was scrapped and the new and improved swap was taken instead? Agendas are at play- that is my opinion.
    CaboWabo5150 and tulianr like this.
  20. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Kerry is the quintessential politician, having been a strong supporter and defender of liberty decades ago, and flip-flopping to Demoscum corporate sponsor. As a known Bonesman, who can say what show he will put on next?

    You raise an interesting point, Ghrit. Maybe the door is open but the "Terrorists™" could ignore this temptation.

    'Price That We Paid Not Worth It': Former Bergdahl Platoon Leader Slams Taliban Swap | Fox News Insider

    Perhaps this was just another jab at mocking the U.S., showing how brazen and tyrannical the Executive can be, and weakening U.S. stance on negotiating with terrorists. There are quite a few tactics and theories surrounding this issue, and I very much doubt it is all cut and dry.
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