Discussion in 'Firearms' started by TailorMadeHell, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    I thought I had asked this question on here though I can't find where I did, so I'll ask here. What is the significant difference between double and triple ought buckshot? I am trying to figure which is better for protection. I am already thinking of having a 12ga Mossberg loaded with buckshot and slugs alternating. Any thoughts?
  2. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Size of the shot.
    Buckshot loads have anywhere from 9 to 30 projectiles depending on the size.
    000 ought has 6 .36 balls
    00 ought has 8 .33 balls
    0 ought has 9 .32 balls
    hope that helps ya

    I keep 00 buckshot and slugs alternating in my 12 870 with 18 1/2 barrel for fast action in the house/farm
  3. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Thanks Quigley, it helps. So it comes down to the question of Do you want lots of small projectiles or a fewer amount of big ones. I think I'll go with 00 as well. Doesn't seem to be much difference unless the amount of powder you use increases punch.
  4. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I keep the first two rounds as bird, then two buck, then last to as slug. It's a auto gun, so if I need to get to the others, just pull the trigger faster.
  5. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    A 12 gauge 2 3/4 " 000 has 8 pellets, a 00 9 pellets, the 2 3/4 " baby mag holds 12 pellets of 00, the only single 0 load from the big boys is a 12 pellet load. The standard 2 3/4 " load is probably the best all-around, but the big pellet count of the 15 pellet 00 3" will really increase your effective range if your gun will pattern them.

    My theory on shotgun pellet size is let the gun decide. Buy a box of every shot size and manufacturer you can, go to the range and find out which one patterns best. The standard dispersion for shotgun pellets from a cylinder bore barrel is 1" per yard, so buckshot will normally shoot about a 25" pattern at 25 yards. My Mossberg is a 590, it prefers 00 and will pattern 9 pellets of 00 or 8 pellets of 000 in 12" at 25 yards. We've patterned a couple of guns for friends, both cylinder bore, and both of them liked the 00 also. I have some data around here from different guns, will have to look for it if you're interested.

    The converse theory, decide buckshot size and make the gun shoot it, requires a choked gun or a lot of gunsmithing work. My 870 has Tru-chokes, so I can change the choke tube. Somewhere around a Modified choke is the best, some of the smaller sizes and plated, buffered shot will shoot some amazingly small patterns with Improved Modified and Full. The tighter pattern just gives better range and performance. 9 pellets of 00 shooting 4 to 6" at 25 yards will put all 9 pellets in a two or four legged varmint at 50 yards. The standard dispersion model gives us a 50" pattern at 50 yards, even launching 15 pellets of 00 will not put the same number of pellets in the vital zone as the choked gun shooting 9 pellets.
  6. troubleticket

    troubleticket Monkey+++

    These work like a charm.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=760 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=10></TD><TD class=normal vAlign=top width=606><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=606 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>[​IMG]</IMG>
    Storefront > Hunting / Optics > Shooting Accessories > Replacement Barrels / Chokes > You are here: Pattern Master Choke Tubes
    [​IMG]</IMG> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=606 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=normal noWrap>

    </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Pattern Master Choke Tubes
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=indent></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=380><TABLE height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width=380>[​IMG]

    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=380 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=3>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=1 bgColor=#000000>[​IMG]</TD><TD vAlign=top width=378><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=365 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=normal vAlign=top align=right><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=bold colSpan=2>Additional Info</TD></TR><TR><TD class=normal vAlign=top>• </TD><TD class=normal>Read Buyer's Guide</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    The patented construction of this incredible choke slows the wad and ensures the tightest, most consistent patterns we've ever seen. Our tests with large steel shot and buckshot convinced us that these tubes outperform every other tube on the market. Consistent patterns of 100% in 20" at 40 yards with 3" mag. 00 buck is the kind of performance we experienced. These chokes use a combination of controlled constriction, internal lugs and venting to achieve superior pattern control. The controlled constriction takes place in the beginning two-thirds of the choke tube. The internal lugs then engage the wad as it passes through the choke - slowing down the wad - the ports (venting) allow the gasses to escape without blowing the shot cup through the shot pattern. The result is an enhanced shot retention in the center of the pattern. Actual constriction of the choke tube is between modified and improved modified. If you want tight, consistent patterns, try one of these. You won't be disappointed. All tubes are ported.

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD align=left width=1 bgColor=#000000>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=3>[​IMG]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>This is from Cabellas catalog. About $80. I have one for each 870. They work with all shot sizes.

  7. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I used to load Shot, 00, Slug, 00, 00, 00
    I gave my 870 to my father a few months back for his trip and have no Shotguns in the house...

    Never really been a scattergun fan myself
  8. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Okay, let me see if I have this right....

    What you want is a tight shot pattern which will allow for better range and more punch to a single target. So I buy an 870 and then check what it wants to shoot to come up with the above results, and if I want to shoot multiple types of shot, I will have to find either multiple chokes or a single all-purpose choke. That sounds like good info to me. I definitely see myself getting multiple shotguns. Ones for protection and ones for hunting so I don't have to change out chokes. I'll also have to pay attention to barrell length and shell capacity. Any recommends on the type of slugs or modifications to them?
  9. troubleticket

    troubleticket Monkey+++

    With a shotgun you need 24" of barrel to burn the load of powder.
    Anything after that only provides a greater sight radius.
    I have a 28" and 20" barrel for my 870s. Both have choke tubes.(PatternMaster)
    Both throw dense even patterns of ALL SHOT SIZES.
    A PatternMaster allows you to choose your shot size for the job, not choose a choke tube and shot size.
    Most people do not realize that the shot moves as a string. Like a swarm of bees.
    Choke tubes are designed to lengthen and narrow the string.
    Most pattern problems are caused by the wad pushing through the shot string and causing a large hole(that gets larger) in the string.
    Shotguns are just like any other firearm, great for one thing and not appropriate for others.
    They are very versatile and for close up, I would not want anything else.
    Slugs are a whole 'nuther can of worms. They do give precision capability out to about 125 yds. Like a short range .50 cal.
  10. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    Right. You have to aim anyway, the Hollyweird stuff about firing a shotgun at 7 yards and blowing out a whole wall is ludricous. The main thing with a shotgun is to learn to shoot it. If you do the 870, buy one and practice loading and firing until pumping the action is subconcious, you don't have to think about it. My 870 was a 30" full choked VR before I cut it to 21" and put Tru-chokes in it. Not knocking the 870, I love mine, but if I were you and did one system tomorrow it would probably be the Mossberg. Buy a 500 6 shot with a 28 and 18 1/2" barrels and shoot it until you wear the gun out.
  11. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Thanks for the advice. I will check into it.
  12. troubleticket

    troubleticket Monkey+++

    I don't think you can wear out a Moss 500. They are probably the best value in shotguns. I use an 870 cus' I gottem right. Otherwise, I would
    have a Moss 500.
  13. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I like shotguns. Some of my favorites are a Remington 1100 with a 8-shot tube extention, a Ithica Featherlite 37 Police model, a High Standard police model pump, a Remington 870, a mossberg 500 Mariner with walnut, a Winchester 97, a Browning Auto 12, a Benelli auto, a L.C. Smith side-by-side, a Browning Citori, and my all time favorites, the Model 12 Winchester ( I have three).The Benelli is probably the most shooter friendly with heavy loads. All are 12 guage, although I do have another 37 in 20 guage and a Beretta side-by-side .410 that is death to quail. My load of choice is no. 4 shot for home defense but I keep everything around from dust door-busters to pumkin-balls.
  14. poacher

    poacher Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I have a 870 that I have 00 buck in and last two are slugs. The slugs are one hydra shock and one Brenneke. I used to have a door greeter, That was a double barrel 10 gauge with 19" bbls. I had it loaded with 00 buck as well. It was amazing how fast people left when that came out. Yes I shot it, yes it kicked .. ALOT. But I figured that if someone could get up after that I would help them load what ever they wanted out of my house.

    Take care Be safe Poacher.
  15. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I love the shotty's myself. I have three of the short barrel models including a Mossy 500 and Rem. 870 Tactical. I saw a used Rem. with a 18 inch barrel and the 8 shot extended tube magazine this weekend for a little over $200. I was really tempted to pick it up.
  16. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    On how you want it to pattern the intended use makes a lot of difference. If you only plant to use it for home defense and suck inside of 10 yards then IMO you would want the most spread you could get just in order to have it hit as a pattern rather than a single mass but if you plan to use it in the open or for hunting then the further you may shoot themore you need the tighter groups to allow for range while maintaining pattern density.
  17. jim

    jim Monkey+++ Founding Member

    So troubleticket...

    What sized groups do you get, as opposed to what the add says? I'm most interested in 00 and 000 Buck.

  18. NY PRO

    NY PRO Monkey+++

    Buckshot is only good for unarmored targets in the open and at less than 30 yds. SGN's have been touted as the universal problem solver or "Ideal weapon". They don't blow walls down nor do they knock people backwards off their feet.(All Hollywood theatrics!). Almost all are modified sporting weapons that aren't up to the rigors of heavy use. Sure, they can be used for home defense for burgulars or for PD's who are too cheap purchase or to train their LEO's with rifles. :rolleyes:

    Buckshot use in urban areas isn't recommended anyways due to over penetration and civil liability reasons.....except for PD's because SGN's are cheap.Now days you can get down loaded Buckshot which has less penetration.......but it's even more expensive than regular buckshot! (It's new ,don't ya know?):eek:

    In rural areas you'd be better off with a rifle and frangible ammo....

    Rarely do people train enough with their SGN"s because ammo is too expensive, or they kick too much, or the weapons are too fragile for constant use like military types. Even the new supposed Benelli that the troops are using is an expensive joke. They aren't staying together cause they too were junk to begin with.....just another modified sporting weapon! .:rolleyes:

    SGN's are used for handgun situations, at handgun ranges.....so switching to slugs in the middle of a firefight is wishful thinking. Buckshot is still lead pellets at handgun velocities and they don't do anything more than handgun bullets as far as tissue destruction goes. So if you have to use buckshot....then go with load that makes the biggest holes and penetrate the deepest......for better hemorrhage of your shootee.....which is what all handgun velocity projectiles do anyways!:D
  19. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I dont see how you can figure that buckshot has overpenetration problems and then recomend a rifle when nearly all rifles have a lot more penetration than buckshot.

    As far as the idea of the buckshot being handgun sized projectiles at handgun velocities and thus not doing anything more than a handgun, I think theres one fact your overlookeing. When you shoot persone with a handgun, useing a .32 as example since IIRC 00 Buck is.32 cal, each time you pull the trigger you get 1 .32 cal hole in them to bleed from. If you have a choke apropriate for the range then 1 shot from a 12 ga with 00 buck puts around 18 .32 cal holes in the person for them to bleed from.

    Switching from buck to slugs in a fight would not be a viable option but loading the gun with 'fruit salad' loads wouldbe totaly viable. Loading it with alternating buckshot loads, slugs and if its an all porpose gun (to also shoot pests) then heavy field loads as the first shot. That way you just shoot with the buckshot then pump in a slug then back and forth so you are set for close and mid range with a lot more energy and bigger or more holes than a handgun and less over penetration than a rifle.
  20. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I carry my shotgun with the first two rounds #7 1/2 birdshot, next two "00" buck, followed by two slug. Works well for me.
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