Bundy Ranch Stand Off - The Next Waco?

Discussion in 'Bill of Rights' started by Mountainman, Apr 10, 2014.


  1. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Article:
    [Watch] BLM Goons Creating de Facto Martial Law in Southern Nevada Standoff |

    Video:


    After you see what's going on, here is a post I made on WCFA:

    "The people that know Bundy need to rally at his ranch and bring as much firepower as they can as a show of strength. You know the jackboots will be watching and taking notice in case they are thinking about pulling a Ruby Ridge or Waco on him. Those were the last times they pushed their unconstitutional agenda so much in the public and tried to justify their actions. Then when the truth came out they should have been tried for murder. The feds need to be told/shown that if they try pulling this again that not only will guns be pointed at them from inside the ranch, but from outside it as well."
     
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  2. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Thank you for starting this thread. Right now I am really torn about what is right, what is the law and what is the truth. I see tempers rising. I see a farmer that got free grazing for 10 years because he chose not to renew his grazing permit. I know they say it is about a turtle but they asked him to reduce his herd at first and he chose not to. I see that the feds let him get away with years of unpermited grazing and only now are enforcing their laws.

    I see people on other sites for people to grab their guns and go support this guy. I see the feds bringing in all their toys ready to rock and roll. I am very concerned.

    I read of people paralleling this to Ruby Ridge and though it is a citizen vs the govt that is about it. I saw that Obama asked for 1 billion for gun control. I see no good coming from this. I come to the Monkey because there are level heads. I come to the Monkey because the member use their brains and act with intelligence and not go off half cocked. Who is right? Wrong? I see a bad ending and how far the impact of this stand off goes, I don't know but it scares me.
     
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  3. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Exactly!!!!!! There comes a time when decisions need to be made.
     
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  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Where is the local sheriff? Why is he not involved? Why has he been silent in this issue? Has he been bought and paid for or is the news that is being released slanted? I also note that other local ranchers are not standing behind this rancher. Bundy has been fighting this since the 90's but he is only now gathering support.

    Another sheriff has a comment on the situation but the local sheriff is silent.

    Exclusive: Sheriff Mack Fires Warning Shot To Nevada Clark County Sheriff: It Is Beyond Lamentable That Clark County Has A Sheriff Who Will Not Keep His Oath Of Office. | Americas Freedom Fighters
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
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  5. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    But what are those decisions? Who truly legally has the rights to that land? Who legally is the owner of that property? The feds say it is theirs. Some say it is Nevada's and Bundy thinks it is his. Or his to use as he sees fit because his forefathers used that land first.
     
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  6. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Oh also Harry Reid, let's not forget him. He was proposing this about the same time that the feds finally stepped up and decided to tell Bundy to get his cattle off.
    Reid bill would preserve Nevada’s chunk of Grand Canyon - Las Vegas Sun News
     
  7. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    He was paying then stopped. So to me he agreed with the laws then he chose not to.
     
  8. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    BUNKERVILLE — From near and wide, armed men are trickling toward Cliven Bundy’s ranch, where the embattled rancher’s fight with the federal government has become a rallying cry for militia groups across the United States.

    On Wednesday, that dispute teetered at the edge of deadly conflict, when Cliven Bundy’s family members and supporters scuffled with rangers from the Bureau of Land Management sent to protect the ongoing federal roundup of Bundy’s cattle on public land. One of Bundy’s seven sons was shot with a stun gun, and Bundy’s sister was knocked to the ground, but no one was seriously hurt and no arrests were made.

    By late Wednesday, three militia members — two from Montana and one from Utah — had arrived at the ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Other militia groups have inundated the Bundy household with calls and pledges to muster at the site. Their stated goal: to protect the Bundys from tyranny.

    They say they are prepared for armed confrontation, but they insist if bloodshed happens, they will not be the instigators.

    Ryan Payne and Jim Lardy, members of the West Mountain Rangers, made the 12-hour drive from western Montana on Tuesday night. Payne is also a coordinator with Operation Mutual Aid, a national association that describes itself as a coalition of state militias.

    “They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne said in an interview at the ranch.

    Payne didn’t put a specific estimate on how many militia members may come, but he said the groups expected are from places like New Hampshire, Texas,and Florida and could number in the hundreds.

    “We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” he said. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”

    Payne, 30, and Lardy, 49, both wore holstered handguns as they spoke, but they downplayed the display of firepower. They wear their weapons daily.

    The goals, they say, are for no one to be harmed, the Bundy family to be protected, and the Bundy property restored.

    For now, they will camp on the Bundy ranch. The issue, they say, isn’t about cattle or grazing rights. It’s about constitutional rights, they said.

    “We’re not anti-government,” said Lardy, who cuts firewood for a living. “We’re anti-corrupt government.”

    Stephen Dean, 45, an artist from Utah, said he made the trip in hopes of heading off another Ruby Ridge or Waco. A member of the People’s United Mobile Armed Services, he said he also carries weapons more powerful than his firearms: a camera and the Internet. Those tools will document the plight of the Bundy ranch and bring the issue to light, he said. “I’m here to see it does happen differently.”

    Serious bloodshed was narrowly avoided earlier in the day, when a BLM ranger shot Ammon Bundy with a stun gun during a heated confrontation a few miles from the ranch house.

    A video posted to YouTube shows a group of angry protesters and law enforcement officers yelling and threatening each other as trucks involved in the roundup attempt to drive through. The officers have their stun guns drawn and one is trying to push the crowd back with a barking dog on a leash.

    Cheryl Teerlink, who witnessed the altercation, said Ammon Bundy was hit by a stun gun in the arm, chest and neck, but he shook off the first attempt to incapacitate him. “I pulled the tasers out of him,” she said.

    Shortly before that, Cliven Bundy’s sister, Margaret Houston, was thrown to the ground by a BLM officer, Teerlink said.
    The incident unfolded near the intersection of Gold Butte Road and state Route 170, where protesters gathered after they saw BLM vehicles, including construction equipment, coming down from the range.

    The Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service released a statement late Wednesday confirming that one protester had been stunned. The agencies said the incident started when “a BLM truck driven by a non-law enforcement civilian employee assisting with gather operations was struck by a protester on an ATV, and the truck’s exit from the area was blocked by a group of individuals who gathered around the vehicle.”
    According to the statement, peaceful protests have “crossed into illegal activity” in recent days, with people “blocking vehicles associated with the gather, impeding cattle movement, and making direct and overt threats to government employees.”

    “These isolated actions that have jeopardized the safety of individuals have been responded to with appropriate law enforcement actions,” the statement said.

    No one from either agency was made available to answer questions from the Review-Journal. A scheduled conference call with reporters set for 3 p.m. Wednesday was postponed by two hours and then canceled altogether by the BLM and Park Service.

    Federal law enforcement officers, also heavily armed, are providing tight security to contract cowboys from Utah who were hired by the government for almost $1 million to round up as many as 900 cattle that Bundy has left to roam on federal land despite not paying grazing fees for the past 20 years.

    Two federal court orders issued within the last year called for the rancher’s livestock to be impounded from a vast swath of mountains and desert. That roundup began Saturday on almost 600,000 acres of land closed to the public during the operation.

    As of Wednesday, 352 animals had been rounded up amid mounting criticism from some Nevada officials.

    Gov. Brian Sandoval on Tuesday slammed the BLM for creating an “atmosphere of intimidation” and called on the agency to dismantle two so-called “First Amendment areas” it set up for demonstrators well away from any roundup activity.

    The former federal judge said he told the agency “that such conduct is offensive to me and countless others.”

    “No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” the Republican governor said.

    On Wednesday morning, before news broke of the scuffle between protesters and the BLM, Sen. Dean Heller, R-Nev., sent out a statement expressing “great disappointment with the way that this situation is being handled.”

    He said he spoke to newly confirmed BLM director Neil Kornze and “told him very clearly that law-abiding Nevadans must not be penalized by an over-reaching BLM.”

    “After hearing from local officials and residents, and receiving feedback from the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association in a meeting this morning, I remain extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure,” Heller said. “I will continue to closely monitor this situation, and urge the BLM to make the necessary changes in order to preserve Nevadans’ constitutional rights.”

    Kornze is a Nevada native who spent eight years as a senior policy adviser for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid before joining the BLM.

    Reached for comment before Wednesday’s altercation between rangers and demonstrators, spokeswoman Kristen Orthman said: “Sen. Reid hopes the trespassing cattle are rounded up safely so the issue can be resolved.”

    ATTENTION: Nevada Militia Calls for Mobilization Against Feds |
     
  9. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Looks like its going to get ugly if something doesn't change soon.
     
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  10. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    IMHO Motomom34 pretty much has it right. This does not appear to be the incident to back with civilian show of force. On the flip side, I do not believe it rates a massive show of force by any police force. I believe the legal system should be used to the maximum, and it should be done openly with local news coverage. I don't believe a siege / swat mentality is called for. The rancher needs to be called in for a sit down on the issues. If after a time if he refuses to pay or come in, charges should be filed and he should be served. He raises cattle. He has to deliver cattle to a buyer in some way. His sale could be stopped and the authorities could confiscate his stock to cover what he owes. A mediation needs to happen as well as maybe a court case to let the people decide. Force and violence is not the answer.
     
  11. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    We've all expected the goobs to again see how far they can push us. Been awhile since they've tried it on this scale. And again they pit themselves against someone who they can vilify with some success in the eyes of the sheep. Bundy may not be completely clean in all of this but some of his arguments are very valid. Especially that this has nothing to do with any damned turtle. If our freedoms are dying the death of a thousand cuts where are we at now? 100?400? 990? It does appear that this time it's the goobs who are getting the worst of it in the press. I hope this can be settled without bloodshed. But with the current crop of pols I think only if Bundy blinks first.
     
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  12. Illini Warrior

    Illini Warrior Monkey+

    it's just a matter of time before one of those BLM snipers open fire .... if these Rangers won't shoot - Obammy & Holder will send in some of their Homeland bully boys .... they've been scraping bottom crap from all over the world for situations like this .... any trigger pullers will be whisked out of the country and Obammy will shield over everything with another exec decree
     
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  13. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    NOTE:
    There were two threads on the Bundy doings, now merged. Please ignore any dislocations of posts.
     
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  14. ditch witch

    ditch witch resident bacon hoarder Site Supporter+

    Yeah this isn't gonna end well.


    BLM is involved in a number of land steals along the TX/OK border, taking land from ranchers who have owned it and paid taxes on it for generations. Something like 90k acres they're trying to take, and they're not paying the ranchers a dime. So no love for BLM down here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
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  15. Mike

    Mike Ol' Army Sergeant Monkey

    Moto, to a point I agree. But much of Utah and too much of Nevada, other western states, have been appropriated by the federal government. I believe in things being at state level, not federal. If he owes the state, then let the state collect. But Nevada land, not military bases or ranges, should be Nevada land, not federal. I totally agree with him there. As to his claim of rights to graze, I kind of agree with him, he was there before federal government was there (family wise) and should have some grandfathered rights, or reduction in grazing fees. Something.

    Whether 10 years of free grazing and patience by the feds, they really should have no dog in this fight and should pull their big boy toys back and use them against gangs and narco-trafficers.

    Sheriff has been usurped by the feds who should not be there. I agree, should be at county level.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
  16. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Quigley I personally think the rancher is hoping to kick something off. He has made statements that he will die for this and he expects to be killed.

    The sheriff needs to do his job. He should be the one running the show but he is silent. His silence could mean 2 things- either Bundy is wrong or he sold out to the feds.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
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  17. Mike

    Mike Ol' Army Sergeant Monkey

    Perhaps he has been pushed all he intends to be pushed. A person has a breaking point. Maybe he has reached his. And the government will oblige.

    Or the feds told him to butt out, it's a federal thing now and no room for barney.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
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  18. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    No, sheriff trumps feds. Correct me if I am wrong but I think sheriff trumps all in cases like this.

    The guy got 20 years of free grazing. He had paid fees (till 1992-3) as probably his father did before him. He used to buy into paying the feds for grazing rights then they changed his lease and here we are today. It really bothers me the militants and just plain gov't haters that could be converging there to start something. say an armed militia shows up and things happen, gun owners will see their 2A rights under attack.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
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  19. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    One article I read, stated that the rancher denies the FED even exists to him.....well, you can deny the bear exists, but it will still eat you.

    There are only three ways to deal with an "un-just" law.
    1) accept it and go on with your life.
    2) defy the law and go to court to fight it out and settle it.
    3) work to have law changed or revoked.
    4) there ain't no forth answer.

    Rancher did none of these things, and simple defied the law.
    Now is the time to go to court, defend his stance on law breaking, and the original problem.
    The rancher caused this standoff, by his own hand.
     
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  20. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    [​IMG]
     
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