A passenger traveling on a bus across Canada's vast Western plains stabbed, gutted and decapitated a man seated next to him in an unexplained attack, a witness told media Thursday. The victim had been sleeping before he was repeatedly stabbed in the chest by a man with a large knife, witness Garnet Caton told public broadcaster CBC. The other 35 passengers and driver were jolted by "blood-curdling screams" and fled. "He must have stabbed him 50 times or 60 times," said Caton. When Caton and two others returned to check on the victim, he said they saw the attacker "cutting the guy's head off and gutting him." "While we were watching ... he calmly walked up to the front (of the bus) with the head in his hand and the knife and just calmly stared at us and dropped the head right in front of us." Police then surrounded the bus and arrested the man, he said. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said they were investigating a "major incident" that occurred at 9 pm Wednesday (0200 GMT Thursday) on a Greyhound bus traveling eastbound from Edmonton to Winnipeg, but offered no details.
We all like to think we'd do the right thing, but till the fires start burning, the bullets start flying or the bubbles from the sinking car start floating upwards through dark waters none of us know how we will really react.
A) He's got a knife and is past the stage of threatening? B) I don't have at least the knife, and likely not a gun? C) Color me out of his reach. I am not into clear self-sacrificial situations. That said, if I could convince someone to attract his attention, I might consider laying a lug wrench or thermos bottle alongside his head with viggah.
Maybe I'm stupid, but I cannot possibly imagine standing by and watching an assault such as that without interfering in some manner, even if it is throwing rocks and shouting. In the first place, I am not going to be on a bus or anywhere else unarmed; if I can't carry a gun or knife, I'll have a rolled up magazine or a chain belt, something to improvise as a weapon. My paranoia has developed to the point that I constantly look about for hiding places, potential threats, escape routes, and possible improvised weapons. Sheer mass of 35 humans against one knife or gun? Run sheep, run... even wolves will defend their pack.
SC- 35 folks (or even way fewer, if you've ever spent time trying to get past a rotund one in a bus aisle) are NOT going to fit down the aisle of a bus; being in the vanguard of such a rush would get you either first knifed or first trampled (in the scenario as described.) But I agree that if there is a way, it should be tested. I don't see you, or me, or damned few others on the forum as stupid. More like canny, and smart enough to not take unwarranted risks. Seems to me that risking several (even if cooperation could be relied on) to save a problematic one would be poor odds. For this scenario, it would take more than just you, or (especially) just olde phart me, to put an end to the mayhem. Moreover, in this case, the vic was done for before anyone could grasp what was happening. The better part of valor had to prevail. And, in the end, the onlookers were ondoers, they kept the perp isolated in the bus until the Mounties got there; and we don't know what all else they tried. Second best? Maybe, but they did something, even if not quite enough. We just don't know enough to make the call; only one eyewitness was quoted. How many others were seated behind the incident that could have participated rather than squeeze past to escape? How many had something on them that would have been useful? We don't know, and MSNBC didn't say. Sheep, maybe. Maybe just not enough wolf's blood in them. But that is me, and maybe me only.
Im also an odd ball, I hear screams or see a threat and I tend to find myself running against the current and toward the threat. While for ME to NOT do whatever I could to end a situation like that would be unfathomable but I fully understand at the same time the wisdom (self preservation) in doing other wise, it just dont work for ME. I also tend to never be unarmed even when I cant carry my gun or a knife. I normaly like to wear a fairly heavey belt buckle on a heavey leather belt (old one broke and havent found a new one yet) which makes a fine improvised mace if needed, generaly carry a big wad of keys and often have a foot or so of cord on them for a similar purpose, have used a rolled up magazine or news paper more than once as a surpriseingly effective equalizer and so on. Its virtualy impossible to find an inviroment (particularly unless every object is nailed down) where there arent dozens of petential weapons laying around.
Apparently he was hungry too: Police Recording Tells Of Killer Eating Flesh Of Victim In Canadian Bus Beheading ShareThis August 3, 2008 10:12 a.m. EST Amy Beeman - AHN Toronto, Ontario (AHN) -- Another gory detail has emerged in the disturbing bus beheading in Canada that has baffled a nation. According to leaked police transmissions Saturday, not only did Vince Weiguang Li brutally stab Tim Mclean dozens of times before severing his head and displaying it to shocked passengers and police, he also ate the flesh of his 22-year-old victim. The police communications were not meant to be heard by the public, but they surfaced on the Internet. On them, an officer is heard describing what he saw while it was happening. On the roughly 80 second recording, one officer reported that Li was cutting off pieces of the victim's body and eating it. The grisly crime happened late Wednesday on a passenger bus traveling from Edmonton, Alberta, to Winnipeg, Manitoba, as passengers began re-boarding the bus after a stop break. Witnesses reported that Li, 40, stabbed the sleeping young man 50 to 60 times before decapitating him and hacking at his body with a large knife. The victim is believed to be Tim Mclean, but police have not yet confirmed the victims name. A man who Li worked for has told the press he is shocked by Li's actions, and would have never thought the reliable, clean, quiet man would be capable of such a crime. Those who know McLean say he was non-confrontational with a big heart. Li was charged with second-degree murder and will undergo a psychiatric evaluation. No known motive has been reported by police.
The passengers did the only thing they could do. I doubt there were many INDIVIUAL conan type males on the bus, ( you know there superhero kind, that save the day.) so the real people on this particular bus got thier girlfriends, children, wives, grandparents etc. off the bus to safety. Then they delt with the perp and the dead guy. Chest beating and hind sight suck. My spelling and grammar do sometimes as well.
Well I have only rode on a bus twice since my school days and those times were years before CCW was legal and in both instances it would have been hard to fight a knife wielding nut job due to the sheer number of people on the bus with me . Once was in going to a 4th of July display in where the city made you use a commercial lot and they bussed us to the park for the festivities and the other was for a free fishing fare I took the kids too with the same transportation deal . Both times I not only had my small children with me but the bus was packed to overflowing with some of us standing in the aisle for the ride . It's hard to imagine something like this on a crowed bus and even harder to imagine trying to intervene if it did . You have no room to swing a club unless it is so short to be consider a cudgel which leaves you wide open for a slash from the criminals knife . I have known a few martial artists one of which was a professional kick boxer with a National Beer maker as a sponsor and even they advise avoiding a man with a knife at all costs . To put it as plain as they did "No matter how good you are you're gonna get cut even if the guy with the knife has no training whatsoever" . I gotta side with Ghit here give me a gun and the SOB is toast , anything short of that and I will try to avoid involvement in it if I can unless it is a family member being attacked that is .
Wow, well of course this has made headline news up here. Oh yeah for those who dont know, They can only give him second degree murder because there is no Concrete proof that he actually did it. It wouldnt matter anyways, No death penalty up here...
WTF?? No "concrete" proof? How about the knife and head in his hands, what everybody heard the screams and ran away without looking to see what was going on?
I'm utterly confused.... Having rode numerous buses, I noted that except for the emergency exits, (windows), the only way out was up the aisle.....(discounting school buses that have the rear emergency exit door!) So, how did all those people get out of this bus without POPPING open the windows....? I only ask this as I saw the bus on tv, and NOT one window was open on the opposite side of the driver.....! So, either this all happened in the very "rear" of the bus, or,.......??? WEIRD. People are getting stranger and sicker, every day! Bill
So, from this second article, it appears that (almost?) everyone had been off the bus when it took place.
Well like I say, I can understand others not acting in the same way and could even acknowledge that generaly that idea is probably smarter/healthier, but for ME not acting just realley isnt an option. So far as faceing a knife, been there done that a few times (misspent youth as well as working as a bouncer, etc) and while its likely you will get nicked (got a few small scars on hands and wrists from it) its by no means guaranteed you will bleed from faceing a knife if you know what to do as I would say about half the time I havent been cut and the only time I used something other than empty handed was a rolled up magazine one of the dimes that deflected the blade as the other hand grabbed the wrist and the magazine then jabbed the idiot in the throat to help convince him to let go of the knife. I dont consider myself any kind of hero or even extraordinary at combat (DEFFINATLY folks out there who could eat my lunch) and dont go looking for chances to get involved in situations but for ME its just hardwired in me that when the need arises, even if my head says 'go away' the feet head into it. I will admit though that I find it more than a little disapointing when I realize that that dose seem to be so unusual simply because I know how much better off we would all be if the criminals and those who commit unprovoked violence were given reason to be more afraid than the rest of us. Hell if such were the case 9-11 could never have happened with the hijackers as badly outnumbered as they were.
