Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Clyde, Oct 8, 2010.
Just ran across this while ordering a few parts:
Bushmaster Presents - ACR
Not worth $2600.
Not worth $1300 (if you can find it for that).
The Magpul Masada was designed to be a $700 gun. Then Magpul desided to have Bushmaster build it instead. Big mistake. Now the rifle amazingly doubled and tripled in price.
It is basically an Armalite AR-180 that is modernized. I would love to have one, but that's not going to happen as long as Bushmaster is making them.
One note of useless info to point out: Armalite is still making their AR-180, and it is actually priced within reason. Go figure.
Another note of useless info: Remington is also making their version of the Magpul Masada, but unlike Bushmaster, they will not sell it to us lowly civvies.
I looked at both the ACR and SCAR when I returned home last. I ended up buying a SCAR.
I have a hard time convincing myself to buy anything with the letters FN on it anymore. I used to own an FN PS-90. I loved how the little carbine operated. I loved how it held 50 rounds in the magazine. I loved how utterly compact it was...
I hated that it was hastily built. It was designed (like the SCAR) with a useful lifespan of some 10 thousand rounds. If you are in the military, that's not a problem; you just give it to the armorer and you get another one. Not for us civvies, and guess what, FN will not sell you parts. You have to mail the weapon back to them to have it fixed.
The P-90 (military version) was designed as an inexpensive, easy to operate PDW. It too, should only be a $700 dollar gun. When you take it apart, the only steel parts are the barrel, breech, bolt asembly, and rails. Even the trigger group is plastic. When the empty shells eject, they bounce off the front of the fire control group housing and dent the hell out of it. I wouldn't doubt that some amount of rounds through the gun will cause a critical FCG malfunction over time. Then you have to pack it up and send it back to FN. No extra barrels, no extra FCG units, no extra bolts.
Also the aluminum frame of the PS-90 is made from cast aluminum. It still has some of the rough casting marks and flash on it. And this is a $1300 weapon? Come on!
I've heard about the SCAR having several of the same problems from FN; a time-life rating on the rifle for a certain number of rounds (I presume then it is trash? Is the rifle rebuildable? Why can't you just change barrels and bolts- isn't that what made this rifle so much better than an AR for in the first place- the quick change barrel ability?) and no spare parts from FN.
I eventually had to come to the conclusion of getting rid of my PS-90 and traded it for something much more useful.
Note of disclaimer- I'm not trying to convince anybody to do or buy anything. I'm just stating what I experienced and why I made the decisions I did. You may like FN. That's totally cool with me. I like the look of the SCAR, FNP pistol, and the PS-90; I just won't own one. FN has a heck of a reputation behind it; I just don't want to deal with a company that is organized in such a manner that it doesn't trust it's customers enough to sell them spare parts.
I'm not a huge FN fan either but they do make some very nice weapons. I do think their military carbines are overrated. Saw a SCAR(5.56NATO) over at our Cabela's the other day for $2600. Not no but hells no! I wouldn't even go more than $2k for a SCAR-H(7.62NATO). The SAW, on the other hand, is a beast. I like their Mark I and SLP shotguns and the SPR bolt guns.
Currently trying to decide between an A5 M SPR or Savage 10 FPXP-HS or a Rem 700 5R. In .308, of course.
I'm not sure what you expect from your weapon system.
In the SCAR's defense, the M4 has a similar life expectancy. The M4 is expected to last 10,000 rounds with a mild firing schedule:
Of course, what is published and what it will actually do are two different things. Example:
Common sense doth apply. No weapon system is going to last (accurately) much past 30-40K. Especially if the rate of fire is high. Rate of fire and maintenance has the most to do with how long a weapon will last. If you hip fire the heck out of it and dump beta drums, all while following up with a dental pick on hard chromed parts..... yeah, you might get 5K.
The SCAR-L was developed from the ground up as what SOF wanted. Hence it's selection. It appears it was put on the back burner since AFG is the fight and the SCAR-H is what everyone wants right now. I don't think any other weapon has been tested like it was. SOCOM isn't exactly easy on weapons. Not only did they run testing in the States, but it was also pushed forward before approved for the ultimate test. Comparing a civilian FN carbine built for a police market with a military carbine with input from SOF leading the design isn't exactly accurate. Google "SCAR Critical Design Review" for more information.
After all, I've depended on the FN M240B and M16 several times in my life. Can't say they ever failed me.
I don't know... why can't you?
I read an e-mail 2 days ago where the manufacterors were recalling some Bushmaster ACRS because they would go into full auto. Might want to check that out.
Bushmaster had a potential winner in their M17S Bullpup, back inthe late 90s. I love my early 'pre-ban' model. Needed a bit more development to work out a few minor glitches, and it would have been a hot seller - if one likes bullpups. Very different ergonomics that some don't care for. Price was good, comparable to the lower end of AR15 pricing at the time.
Then the big AR15 lovefest started, and everybody and his ugly cousin began building the poodle shooters - it's now a cottage industry. The 'odder' designs were suddenly forgotten. The Armalite AR-180and M17S share very similar bolt and gas systems, that are much more forgiving of dirt and crud, and don't 'crap where they eat'.
Potentially better designs for desert environments. Easier to build for smaller nations too - but the hoped-for international sales never developed.
I had hoped for the same with the ACR as to lower prices, but with the Remington bean-counters running Bushmaster these days, they screwed the pooch AGAIN......
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