Busse Battle mistress

Discussion in 'Blades' started by E.L., Oct 1, 2013.

  1. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

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  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Hmmmm, reminds me a lot of Bear's custom machetes. .... jus sayin
    Hmmmm, a reason? .... How about, beheading zombies, or giving a little payback to Radical Islam!
  3. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Busse makes some seriously bomb proof knives.... used to collect them and had at least two or three of a lot of the older models... the Battle Mistress is a beast of tool... :0) Oh and Jerry Busse is also a gentleman and a really nice guy
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  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    A lot of research and testing went into these blades, and the Busse steel is remarkable. The ergonomics are also great, and the feel and performance are reported to be top-notch. I wouldn't mind owning one of these myself.

    I am still on the lookout for a nice, rugged gladius that won't break the bank.
    Bear likes this.
  5. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Yup... I remember when Jerry first came out with the his first knife... I think it was the Steel Heart.... one of the first knives to come with a bomb proof 100% guarantee... of course.. back then ... a 1/4 - 5/16" thick blade was unheard of :0) good stuff...

    @Brokor what's up with all the interest in a Gladius... you're like the 3rd person I've seen that is looking for one :0) (Gladiator was one of my favorite movies so I love the blade myself :0)
  6. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    LOL! Well, it's not the movie or fascination of any kind. I have trained with swords for years, and I favor the weight and balance as well as the effectiveness of the blade itself.

    I want a NEW style gladius, more modern and capable of wielding two at once. Additionally, if we strip away the fancy ball on the end for counterbalance and make it a simple, less obtrusive counterweight, it will allow for greater wrist movement. The "tactical" look of not having a guard is preferred, and it also changes the dynamics. Finding a bulletproof tool steel gladius which isn't too thick or thin, maintains the teardrop design and has excellent ergonomics and balance is very tough.

    So far, this is the closest I have ever found to what I am looking for:
    Murder: Tactical Gladius


    What I would change: The handle (grip) --make it more contoured and full. Also, change the design by adding a welded-on counterbalance (pommel), flattened at the end of the hilt. This would alter the flared part of the handle, but keep the overall length about the same. I would also change the guard by angling it forward, more typical of a sword-breaker. But, the overall size and weight seem to be spot on. I would also like a slightly more flared out teardrop blade, more like the traditional gladius. Definitely would keep the fuller. A flimsy, thin machete steel wouldn't suffice. And, why not just buy this gladius? Well, it costs $750 for starters. Still, it is a beauty.

    A lot of folks do not understand the concept and reason of rounded handle grips, since they do not wield a sword for hours on end. I do own the Cold Steel gladius machete, and I love it for what it is, but it's got a wicked point (I do not favor) and a classic style hilt and pommel (also do not like), but mostly, it's a thin blade (hence machete). Pretty good bargain for $25, though. lol.

    I was going to just buy the materials and tools to make one myself. Maybe I will some day. Only problem will be heat treating the large blade, and might have to source that out. The fuller would also be a pain, but I could just grind that out with a Dremel and a dozen bits...yeah, I don't know.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  7. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Sounds like, @Broker, you would favor a hand and a half bastard sword.or at least the grip.
  8. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    @Brokor Two feet long... about 1/3 looks like handle for a two handed grip? over a 1/4" inch thick... .285... doesn't say how wide the blade is... Why the fuller? weight and balance? Counter weight for a balance where on the blade? O-1 is easy to heat treat... but yeah you'd need a large enough quench tank ... getting it up to critical would be easy enough... but I don't think you'd want to deal with any warp.... Interesting that they didn't use a shock resistant steel like S7... although I've seen great swords out of A2 and 5160... Yup... that's pretty pricey but it looks pretty well made... probably a lot of computer aided work....

    Interesting that you train with swords :0) remind me not to mess with you when you have a blade in your hand :0)
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I'd prefer a matched pair similar to this. 1026-GT-3.
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  10. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    That basket guard design actually has a purpose other than the obvious... is what I've read... do you know what each element of the basket is for? You guys have some great taste in edged tools :0)
  11. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I also did this back in the day:

    Not for Team USA, though. I ended up breaking off and going into competitive martial arts and training systema.

    @kellory I don't like the weight of a bastard sword, but hand-and-a-half types are among my favorites, especially the grip. Viking swords also come close, not the full size type. I like hefty blades, but not heavy (if that makes sense). Generally, a blade length of more than 19" and overall greater than 29" is too long (for me). I like the length of the one I pictured above, it's just about perfect, maybe just an inch or two short. It depends on the overall balance and weight.

    @Bear I don't know if I could quench a blade that size successfully, let alone heat treat it properly. About balance, the end of the hilt (pommel) should counterbalance the blade enough to lighten the swing. The sword's center of balance is often arguable, and a matter of preference in many cases, but generally should not be too forward of the point where the blade ends and the handle begins. Since people do not sword fight these days outside competition, most do not understand the complexity involved with making a proper useable sword. Imagine swinging a blade (even training) for one full hour. After just that much time, even a 3 lb. sword (very light) would feel like it weighed 50 lbs. to somebody unaccustomed to using one for that length of time. The counterbalance acts as part of a fulcrum, distributing the weight evenly. Most modern blades leave this out because folks would use them for a few minutes in a video showing how well they cut and chop, or just hang them on a wall. It took a lot of training and skill to wield a sword properly hundreds of years ago, and those men must have been dog tired after a battle, if they survived. This is one reason why the "high guard" was created; holding the sword center mass just above the head created a great defense, but also took the weight of the blade off a horizontal hold.

    The shorter swords I often prefer, MUST be light enough to allow longer periods of use, and this is why a fuller is necessary for a sword blade of any decent thickness --otherwise, it would require one, massive pommel to counterbalance. Perhaps this is why the Romans had designed their swords with such a bulbous pommel, I don't know. The Spartan designs are pretty interesting, also. The teardrop blade is very effective, and utilizes the most commonly used portion of the blade as a serious wound causing implement of death. The point is sharp, but not so sharp as to break. The blade fans out immediately leading to maximum width just inches from the tip. This is the part which causes huge wounds, and even when the swordsman is tired, a modest thrust will still serve its purpose effectively. The handle grip should be ROUND to allow for full range of motion in the wrists without creating discomfort. Even a slightly oblong shape of handle, being wider at the top and thinner at the bottom (kind of like a rain drop) would be better than a couple of thin slabs of micarta. For a two-handed sword, a slightly flatter profile is more effective, mostly for handling and accuracy. The Japanese style Katata is a perfect example of an amazing handle design. Of course, the two handed katana compared to a single handed gladius are worlds apart, as one is primarily a thrusting weapon while the other is a slashing weapon, as you probably already know. Since a gladius blade is wielded by only one hand, this changes posture as well as attack/defensive methods, along with styles and fighting capabilities. It's critical to understand the mechanics involved with actual sword fighting, because there are many theories, tactics and philosophies involved in a real (functional) sword design.

    I would like to see you make a sword some day, Bear. ;)
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
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  12. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Punch, draw, catch, break...those were days which turned sword fighting into an art. Of course, a gentleman who fancies such a contest was hard pressed to defeat an enraged barbarian, dual wielding. :D
    Bear likes this.
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

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  14. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I prefer Florentine (two swords) or hand and a half bastard sword, with a buckler. I snapped the last two handed long sword I used. I used to practice with a group where the intent was control. max speed, with minimum impact. You were financially responsible for any injuries to your opponent. We made our own Armour as well. Some of my best work has been spotted in campus bars, after my storage locker (and 30 others) were broken into. I still have my chainmail spinner, and my shaping posts, one of my helmets, and a few practice weapons.

    @Bear , Rods, quillions and guard, were to block, bind, and break. (the most protection, with the least weight) many dirks, or short swords were made thick and notched on the back of the blade, to catch, and break your opponent's blade. If I had a choice, a grip covered in sharkskin, or leather, wrapped with twisted wire would be best.
    The pommel weight and balance is subjective. Most blades I have used balance about a hand span forward of the guard. You want enough tip weight to carry through on a slice, and light enough to be quick and fluid in motion. Any blade is useless, if it is too late to arrive. The better the balance, the less force needed to move or stop the blade. Larger, thicker blades can power through or break lighter blades, so the proper defense is not to block it, but deflect it, then strike while he is out of position trying to muscle a heavier blade. More weight of course, means more momentum.
    As to the pommel itself, besides the counter-balance effect, it is also used to assemble the blade. As I recall, rods and quillions, can not be hardened much, or they become brittle and break under impact. so they can not be tempered along with the blade.
    Bear likes this.
  15. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    @Brokor Wow! that is brutal stuff you were involved in! Thanks for the enlightenment... very interesting... I do enjoy learning about that... I've owned several katana and wakizashi... I can tell you that they are indeed very heavy... and that in long battles... it was common to rest the sword on your shoulder... imagine a dotanuki or battle blade... that was thicker and wider than normal...
    Indeed... I swing a 3-4 lb hammer for 3-4 sessions non stop... I can tell you that it has taken me years to get to the point where I do that even over several days and not feel it in the morning... I also do some very specific weight training to keep my grip, wrist, forearms, shoulders etc... in condition... Imagine... I know a guy who is a master blacksmith.... who almost exclusively uses an 8lb hammer... one side of him is massive .... Not sure I would make a sword anytime soon... remember... I'm a machete guy... for a lot of the same reasons... weight and being able to use it for hours on end :0)... if I did make one... it would be just one... and for a buddy like you :0)

    @kellory again... Wow! again I am impressed and humbled by the experience and knowledge.... I am remembering one of my very favorite fight scenes... Rob Roy... where at the end... one used a like a fencing sword? and Liam used a Sabre type? very cool scene... the sabre was thick and heavy and clearly he was tired... while the fencer was not... not sure if that was realistic or not... but I like it anyway :0)

    I agree... I would imagine you would not heat treat the swords the same way you would a knife... you not want it to be to hard or it would be too brittle and break easily... a certain amount of spring and shock resistance... better to bend than break... either way... its a brutal sport and I commend both of you for your knowledge of swords....

    Wow... all of this from a Busse Battle Mistress :0)

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  16. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I remember stories of blades that were sold with small hooks on tip and pommel. The proof that it was such a blade was it could be bent so that the hooks locked together, yet take no damage. The hooks were filed off after purchase.
    If you think these guys get tired in combat, there is a 9foot longsword in the Smithsonian. It is believed, that is was wielded by a spinning man!;)
    @Broker, I am, (though inactive) still a member in good standing with the S.C.A.;)
    Cool vid. I didn't know we had a National Team. If I had known in my twenties..........?;)who knows?
  17. flatlander

    flatlander Monkey+

    I've got one of the first 100 SHBM ever made. Bought it and used the crap out of it for about 15 years now. They have taken everything I've ever thrown at it...including using a 20 oz framing hammer to beat it through a 8" treated timber.

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