California secession - good or bad?

West Virginia was formed during the time Virginia had withdrawn from the Union. I don't think it met the test under Art4, Sec 3, but that water is murky being as Virginia was out, and no Constitutional challenge ever came in the form of a court case. Would have been hard for Virginia to bring suit given they had removed themselves from the US Constitution at that time, and nobody on the Northern side of the issue was going to balk at getting folks to stay with them....so the issue was never really challenged.

Art4, Sec3:
New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.

I read the unlined part as an absolute, given it is separated by a semi-colon (the FF were quite precise in their wording for a reason). The second part beginning with "nor any state" requires the consent of two states + Congress, if say for example, the eastern shore of Va decided they wish to join Maryland instead of being Virginians.

Given that interpretation of the Article (and who knows how the Supremes MIGHT decide it), it is not possible to have two California States with amending the Article.

Kosovo doesn't come under the US Constitution, and therefor has no bearing on the issue.

 

@TnAndy " I don't think it met the test under Art4, Sec 3, but that water is murky..."
I also read that as an absolute and I never heard of it before. Interesting. Thanks, TnAndy! Then, by law, a state cannot secede from another state, seems pretty clear to me also...so I wonder what all this fuss is about and just how they think they can get around it?

 

@ghrit Well, it certainly seems like a lost cause to me because Old California would be insane to let go of New California, especially since there is no pressing or valid reasons for them to do so. Give up the monies from that tax base? Never. Certainly the desires of the people have no weight in this matter: plebs, serfs, mindless masses... Seems like a wasted effort to me...but maybe there is something I don't know.

 

My interpretation of Art3 is that there is no exception if a state wants to split. The second phrase refers to some part of one state wishing to join another state.....then both legislatures have to consent + Congress.

 

There is no provision in the Constitution for a State to secede. That being the case, a State would be allowed to do so since there isn't wording to restrict or prohibit secession.....in fact, given the wording of the 9th amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

and the 10th:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Those 2 amendments make it quite clear (to me) that absent specific powers or prohibitions, the States and people can do whatever they want....including secede. This is the EXACT reason no one from the South was ever tried for treason after the War of Northern Aggression......had the issue ever gotten inside a courtroom, it would have been quite plain the South had every right to leave the Union if they chose to do so.

I would guess there isn't language in the Constitution about secession because it never occurred to the FF's that "Once in, you could never opt out" I mean, THESE were the guys that wrote/signed the Declaration of Independence.....truly the greatest document ever conceived......that recognized that people have a right to a govt of their choosing....no way in hell would they sign up for a perpetual govt, especially given how unresponsive ours has become to the will of the people.

 

Yes, I think THAT would meet a Constitutional test....secede....rejoin as separate States. As you say.....long arduous process, and few voters would understand the reasons or issues, given the almost total lack of understanding of the US Constitution today.