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can someone tell me about .22 rifle?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by spartan, Aug 16, 2008.

  1. spartan

    spartan Monkey++

    i recently bought an italian made .22 cal long rifle. can it be used for self defence and at what range? thank you
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I don't think anyone here would support the idea that a 22 rimfire of any flavor is particularly suitable for self defense at any range. Please forgive the assumption that you are a tyro when it comes to firearms, and allow me to recommend that you re-think the idea a bit. If my assumption is wrong, feel free to correct me loudly and with no mercy.

    Welcome aboard, pull up a stump around the fire, and pour a cuppa your best.
  3. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    I notice you are from Nigeria....? We here in The States sometimes forget that folks elsewhere have more restrictions in firearms than we have. A .22 rifle isn't the best defensive weapon, but better than no gun, certainly. Within 100 yards, it could indeed be deadly. Ammo selection would be critical, and practice would be needed - we have a saying, "It's all about shot placement!"
    A headshot would kill, a body shot would be often enough to make the interloper go elsewhere.
    But, for proper defense, a larger caliber handgun or carbine would be better, or a shotgun.
  4. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    A friend of mine can do a 2-inch grouping at 100 yards with his .22LR -- that's with a 4x? scope, but it's still a small enough grouping to scare off any 2-legged critters that don't want lead poisoning.

    The .22 probably loses a lot of energy past 50 yards, but I'm too lazy to look up a chart (wife has "honey-do's" that must be done).

    An old guy once told a friend: "A soldier does his best with what he has".

    If I get time later tonight, I'll look up some ballistics for the .22LR (if someone else here doesn't beat me to it).
  5. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I like .22s
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  6. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Spartan, first of all, welcome to the Monkey!

    Secondly, what kind of action does the rifle have? Is it a single-shot or a repeater of some type?

    A semi-auto 22LR rifle, although not by any means what I would call sufficient, can kill a man just as dead as a larger rifle and lay down a very intimidating volume of rapid fire. No, it wouldn't be my first choice (or my tenth) but it certainly beats throwing rocks and yelling.

    I would guess that it's lethality seriously drops off past about 50 yards, but that's just a guess. Across the living room or the length of a house a couple of hits on target should bring down most men.
  7. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Well, a pointy stick is a deadly weapon and if its all you have available beats no weapon at all for deffense but would be far from the best option. A .22 is basicly a pointy stick with a bit more reach. As has been mentioned, a .22 is absolutely capable of being deadly on people as well as larger animals (I have killed many hogs and cattle for butchering with them, but shot placement AND angel are vital. If its for use on anything larger than say medium size dogs make sure to use lead round nose ammo NOT hollow points as hollow points will not penetrate enouph from a .22 to be efective on larger animals includeing people. I would say 50 yards would be a max to be remotely reliable for kill shots and a head shot would be the best bet by far, 25 yards or less would be better. If the task of the gun is defense against people or large animals then I would DEFFINATLY advise a handgun in .38 spl, .380 acp cal or larger, a center fire rifle or a shotgun as any of these would actualy be adequate to the intended task. To use a .22 for the purpose is kind of like useing a knife as a screw driver, while it kind of works and can generaly get the job done it is NOT the right tool for the job and if its a defensive situation your life depends on sucess so haveing the RIGHT tool for the job is a much better idea if at all possible.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Spartan -

    Here are some links to basic 22 cal information.

    I tried to find something hard and fast similar to the Marshall and Sanow data related to 22 caliber "stopping power" for pistols that is related to rifles, but seems there isn't any. M&S rated a number of caliber and projectile combinations which have been used for defensive (and offensive) purposes. The data has also been used in conjunction with selection of weapons for military and police purchases. The 22 doesn't make the cut for one shot stops at any range from pistols, and given that there is not a lot of velocity gain from rifles, I would not expect a significant improvement in the ability of a rifle as a defensive weapon over a handgun.

    All that said, as noted in the previous posts, a 22 is better than nothing. Shot placement is a critical determinant, the more so with 22 than with larger calibers, and multiple rounds far better than only one. By that statement, an auto loader is defensively better than a bolt or lever, and a bolt or lever is better than a single shot.

    Every box of 22 ammo I've seen has a note on it saying that it can do harm up to a mile. That may be so, but to stop a bad guy at a mile would require an inordinate amount of what might be called "luck." Commonly cited effective ranges for small game hunting indicates 75 yards as a practical maximum, and then only for a very capable hunter. (That will start the arguments around the campfire.) With some luck and very good shot placement, deer sized game can be taken at up to say 50 yards, but most folks would call that unethical because of the great chance of wounding rather than a clean kill.

    Relating that last paragraph to defense, I'll assume that you are concerned with defense against a human aggressor rather than a dangerous animal. You are going to have to have one cool head and very good shooting skills with a 22 to stop a human hell bent on doing you or yours harm, but it can be done. I would hazard a guess that a minimum range assessment more valuable than a maximum, simply because determining the intent will be difficult at best at longer range. It is common to consider 7 yards as the minimum distance at which a determination has to be made to shoot for defensive purposes, and defensive use of handguns is frequently based around that distance. The 22 might require more, since more shots will be needed to discourage a bad guy.

    Sorry this is not as definitive as might be wanted, but that's the way of it. If defense is the reason you have that gun, it is time to consider something a bit more powerful if you are allowed to do so in your country, and use the 22 for taking game.

  9. Wild Trapper

    Wild Trapper Pirate Biker

    Unless being shot at from afar, I don't personally consider anything out past 25-30 feet as being self defense, unless of course the would be attacker is charging. A .22 rifle in capable hands should be ample deterrent. Forget it if the attacker is on drugs, or if there are several, or worse yet, a wild animal.

    That being said, I have shot and killed raccoons at 100 yards with a .22. But, a human attacker is not a raccoon.
  10. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    I have been shot more than once at one time with a 22 cal and could function as normal, beware.
  11. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    May I ask where you were hit? I am genuinely interested as it would also reflect the stress levels involved for yourself and the shooter and how that affected his aim/performance and how you reacted?

    I have heard a lot of war stories where people were hit and only noticed after the adrenaline rush and the action was over.

    A .22 is an ideal wet work weapon, taking people out at point blank range from behind, or for taking small game in a SHTF situation, one of the rule's for a gunfight were don't bring a gun whose calibre doesn't start with a 4, as in a .44 magnum or .45 ACP.

  12. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    I took them all on my left side of my body, hand and knee.
    There was absolutely no pain, just a numb feeling for about 30 mins.In that time i would be able to inflict damage the same as if i were not hit.then it would factor in some with the onset of the pain, but i could still do most everything even so..... Food for thought.

    Don't get me wrong..... Would I shoot a 22 to dispatch someone? absolutely, but I have the knowledge of the after affects and wont be caught at a disadvantage after the shot due to my personal experiences with getting hit by a 22.
    This is Just my 2 cents worth for what ever its worth.
  13. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    I'm amazed that you didn't mention going into shock, if them two hits from a .22 didn't induce shock then one would probably be better off getting a weapon that has more punch.

    I'd just like to relate a hunting experience that I had a few years ago, while I was out hunting Roe deer, I shot this Buck and he went down after going a few yards, when I went over I was amazed, my hit was a bad one as I'd hit him on the breast bone from the left broadside, while he was trotting, at 100m's. The .308 win had hit him so hard that he'd gone into shock and bleed out before I got to him.

  14. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    .22to the neck( carotids) or femoral artery would probably put you) down fairlyquickly ...but like they said its not really enough gun for predators unless they're at point blank range and you have the advantage..." They"told us if we had to defend with a small caliber weapon to shoot for the "T" zone formed by the eyes and nose cartiledge ( i.e soft access into the brain box..
  15. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Nope no shock at all.

    Easy enough to try, hard to do, its a different world when the game of life is on the line, its a wonder you can breath little alone shoot someone where you aim, thats when the training kicks in, at that exact moment when the the mind and body go into overload. It will be only the training that will get it done nothing else.
  16. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    The one thing that always goes through my mind in reading someones posts about combat, is do they really know how it will go when it goes down? there is alot to learn from Combat Vets, and Mortis had seen a great amount of it, although he no longer visits here due to the attack dogs who haven't been there.[cow]
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    My younger brother was killed with a single shot from a .22 in the head. My ex-wife's brother was killed by a single shot from a .22 through his left kidney. They will kill you.
  18. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Yep for sure Im not saying they wont, just saying place the shots.
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