Carry for todays threat...

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by AD1, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    A friend who is a Grand Master Class USPSA Welcome to - Home of the United States Practical Shooting Association shooter posted this on FB today.

    It is so on point i needed to repost here.

    I am in full agreement except with the optic/red dot sites. I would rather not rely in something that can fail when I need it.

    Since SHTF is possible everyday I have moved from carrying my Glock 23C to either the Glock 34(9mm)or 35(40 cal S&W)Full sized Comp pistols with 3 full mags as my EDC( same capacity as the Glock 17 quoted in the article with 52 rounds). I had lunch with a Monkey last week and had it with me then in Seattle as I do evert time I travel there for work.

    This Paragraph is probably the seminal point innthe whole article

    " This is not a self-defense pistol per se. It is designed to be offensive in nature in that it has capabilities beyond the small mini pistols favored for routine self defense. Yes, a pistol armed man can readily defeat a rifleman if: the rifleman is within the reach and accuracy of the pistol shooter, the pistol shooter does not challenge or announce himself, and the pistol shooter is technically practiced and up to the task.""

    Suarez International


    I am a rifleman in my heart. I own at least two dozen assault rifles. (Yes, that is what I call them). My company makes some of the most accurate over-watch rifles for US Police CT units that shoot sub-MOA groups. I designed and implemented one of the first urban patrol rifle, and with all of the cross burning by the democrats, I should certainly jump on the rifle band wagon.

    But I won’t.

    Oh, I will agree that every able-bodied American with a brain, for true national security, should own at minimum one AR-15 type rifle, but that is not what I will be discussing.

    The threats Americans face today as a nation, and as individuals are unprecedented. And those threats are exacerbated by an incompetent or subversive leadership, and a highly fearful (political correctness or death) law enforcement community.

    We saw it in San Bernardino just a few months ago, and in Orlando a few days ago. The days of the J-Frame in the corner pocket against the beatnik muggers of America are long gone.

    Today’s threat is an American Citizen that has flown under the radar all his life but who has adopted Islam and taken it upon himself, unannounced to bring the war into your life. And his goal is not theft, or rape, or any of the common crimes that used to alarm the public in the halcyon 1990s.

    His goal is to kill as many of you as possible…you, your wives and husbands…daughters and sons…and in the most horrible way possible. And then…to die either by his own hand or finally…at the hands of the police.

    We saw how quickly help will come. Do I really need to go over all of this yet again. Five words that I want you to say to yourself every morning, every time you leave the house and any time you see one of those “No Guns Allowed” signs that the good citizens abide by.

    You - Are - On – Your - Own.

    And all the sub MOA rifles on earth will not be in your belt when you hear the chilling war cry of our enemies and see the first innocent go down from rifle fire. What you will have however is a well concealed pistol. But the pistol for the beatnik Mugger and the Meth Head in the alley is not sufficient for an Orlando or San Bernardino.

    I will coin a term that I suspect will be derided by some…and stolen by others. The Counter Terrorist Pistol.

    This is not a self-defense pistol per se. It is designed to be offensive in nature in that it has capabilities beyond the small mini pistols favored for routine self defense. Yes, a pistol armed man can readily defeat a rifleman if: the rifleman is within the reach and accuracy of the pistol shooter, the pistol shooter does not challenge or announce himself, and the pistol shooter is technically practiced and up to the task.

    So here are my thoughts for such a pistol.

    1). Full Size Pistol with a full complement of ammunition. Minimal is a Compact size. So a Glock 17 is preferable to a Glock 26…but a Glock 19 is fine too. A pocket pistol…or a Glock 43 or Shield is not in this genre. Full size pistols are easier to shoot well. Even if you are a master with your Kel-tec pocket 380, you will be far better with a Glock 17 or 19. Remember, this is not self-defense from a street thug…it is war.

    Such a pistol must have a superlative trigger. This is not the time for silly court-proof triggers that require all five fingers to pull. You are not an NYPD conscript saddled with an internal affairs trigger, so don’t do that to yourself. And don’t listen to the fools that drone on about legal liability. That is nonsense. Light and crisp is what we need.

    Such a pistol must have a sighting system capable of proactive, preemptive surgical shooting. Big fat dot sights are contra-indicated. This is a pistol designed to shoot an enemy in the face across a crowded room at 25 yards. In this day and age, that means an optical sight, mounted as low as possible, melted into the slide so the height over bore is as low as humanly possible (something the CORE and MOS do not provide).

    And such a pistol must have a barrel capable of what the shooter expects from such a pistol. The barrel must be as close to match grade as possible. A factory barrel may be adequate for self defense in an alley, but for this application, it is insufficient. And not all after market barrels qualify as “match grade” even if marketed that way. Check the source of those barrels before accepting the product.

    2). Carry for Combat Not Convenience. Yes, those little “key chain” pistols are so convenient, but most of those who select them can carry a far bigger weapon with a little effort. We are at war and the weapon you fight that war with is what you take with you in the morning. Choose wisely.

    A normal human being who is not being patted down regularly can carry a full size combat pistol all day every day without much trouble. Even in places where they are not supposed to if they are careful with holster choices and attire.

    And when it comes to that, do you think the kids in Orlando and San Bernardino would have ignore the signs and the rules if they knew what was coming for them? I bet they would.

    3). More ammo is more better. The idea that every shot will hit and drop an adversary is a fantasy. Your enemy is likely armed with an assault rifle (just like the two dozen I have at home). You really want just six or seven tries at him? My every day carry weapon is a Glock 17 with two additional magazines (minimum) for a total of 52 rounds.

    4). Reliability. Yes, we want it reliable, but when some people think “reliability”, they mean the weapon will run with the dregs of the ammo he got for cheap from his neighbor who loaded it in his garage in a drunken stupor after binge watching 24. No. Reliability is gauged with the best man-killing ammo money can buy. The last time I looked, fighting ammo was about $1 per round minimum. And we do not want to sacrifice accuracy for reliability with shit ammunition.

    5). Accuracy. Back in the era of two shots to the center of mass, accuracy was gauged by a torso. “Accurate enough” usually meant that the shooter and pistol could keep the payload on a chest inside a room. Well boys and girls, today’s threat is a tough adversary. Probably very fit and weight trained, wearing either a ballistic vest or a bomb vest. Shooting him in the chest is not only a waste of time but likely a direct cause of your demise.

    Today accuracy is measured by face shooting. And real accuracy is measured by shooting rounds into a target the size of a human eye at room distances. Shoot a physically fit, muscular jihadist wearing a ballistic vest in the chest and he will smile and shoot back. But shoot him in an eye…or in the era canal…or right in the back of the head at the brain stem…and the Jihad party has come to a sudden and terminal stop. Above all the CT Pistol must be capable of that type of accuracy.

    We live in a time of war. Carry accordingly.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
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  2. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    my problem with carrying is where I live requires a permit... and I really hate having to apply for a right I should have...

    oh I'm talkin concealed carry BTW...

    open carry is currently legal throughout the state...

    but open carry IMHO just makes you one of the first targets chosen...

    so I have resisted the desire...

    also ya gotta watch carefully what you say and do if your armed...

    the escalation thing...

    guess I should work on that?
    GOG, kellory, AD1 and 1 other person like this.
  3. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    Well said, AD1. I just quoted the parts of your post that should be written in flaming red letters a foot tall.

    The Orlando police did a three-hour Columbine Camp-out instead of engaging the active shooter.
    I'm sure they're very glad they didn't get hurt.

    They are directly responsible for every death that occurred during that three-hour period.

    In war, I wonder what would happen if a military unit was ordered to engage the enemy and they decided to wait three hours so they could do it more safely?
    BlueDuck, GOG, Dunerunner and 3 others like this.
  4. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    In full disclosure
    Those lines are not my and are from the article. Anything below the Suarez Int is from that FB post.

    But I do agree 100% with most everything in that article. Cuz I live in AZ and have seen the illegal drug activity and the cartels deep inside our state, I have been carrying as long as I can remember.

    Just lately(2-3 years) i have switched to the full sized competition pistol and mulitiple mags bucause it is war!

    Bug Guy[LMAO]

    Due to my past and current employment including security clearences' and DHS travel docs, and class III items, I am not worried about them having more of my info so the CCW is no big stretch for me, including having them in multiple states. But I do understand your reluctance.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
    Dunerunner likes this.
  5. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    This notion that carrying openly makes you the first target is utter horsepucky in most cases. Yes, in a well-planned attack by professionals, they will target those who they know to be armed from their recons, but if you are just Joe Blow who happens to be on the scene...yeah, if you are spotted armed you will be targeted....but even then odds are you will spot them first..and hopefully fire first...making it pretty obvious you are armed.

    For the run-of-the-mill mutt, he/she is just gonna start shooting when the primary target(s) are acquired (specific or general) and just like above, unless they spot you first, you'll probably notice them first.

    I open carry mostly, but don't let the lack of a CC permit prevent me from concealing if I feel the need. That "need" can sometimes be an affirmative defense...and of course I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. ;)
    Bandit99 and arleigh like this.
  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I guess I am doing something right because I moved to carrying my Glock 19 with its 15 round mag after San Bernardino and stopped carrying the Kahr with its 7 round mag. My reason was obvious: two shooters. What I am currently doing wrong and trying to correct is I do not carry a spare magazine, can't find a holster I like that has one beside my shoulder holster which has 2. I can't always wear the shoulder rig and it isn't really made for fast draw. But, I agree with everything the guy says. And, I do have a Concealed permit that is good in 38 states. I don't worry about staying under the radar for like @AD1I have had a security clearance all my adult life, and it's all on record, at numerous agencies since none of them accept others clearances. Yeah, good to know I am doing it right...
    Yard Dart, Dunerunner and AD1 like this.
  7. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    In order to keep "printing" to a min, i dont use mag holders. I probably should but I just dont like all that gear hanging on my belt under my 511 covert shirt.

    I keep the spare mags in my right rear pocket of my pants(I am left handed) and my Benchmade Adamas auto clipped in my front left pocket.

    If in a place like a theater or a place that can go "dark" if the lights are killed, same set up but I add my Surefire E2D Defender clipped in the same front left pocket as the Benchmade.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
    Yard Dart likes this.
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    FN 5.7x28 with spare mag, the spare mag holds 35.
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  9. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Now the Judge on the tractor
    That sucker is loud!
    Any where else Shield.40
    Yard Dart likes this.
  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I am going to start carrying an extra mag in my Cargo pants least I will try it and see how it goes. Maybe as an extra I will buy a Glock 17 mag which will fit my Glock 19 but holds 17 instead of 15 rounds...
    AD1 likes this.
  11. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Try Tru-spec 24/7 pants, not only do they have LOTS of pockets, including knife pockets, the side cargo pockets include mag loops and can hold a 2-3 mags each. They also have inserts for knee pads and dry FAST. I wear them to work daily, out to the range and when shooting USPSA or IDPA. .
    kellory, Dunerunner and AD1 like this.
  12. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Taurus 24/7 Pro 9MM 17 round capacity, one spare magazine for my EDC. Unfortunately for the Clot 1911 which Love dearly...but even with an 8 round mag in the grip with one in the pipe, and two 8 round mags in the mag carrier, my Taurus still has more firepower at 35 rounds.
    AD1 likes this.
  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I will have look them. Thanks!

    EDIT: I ordered a set and will give them a try.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
  14. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I typically carry the M&P Shield in 9mm with a spare mag loose in my back pocket. Considering what I where for work most days, I utilize the appendix carry which I can do quite well without printing. I doubt AD1 even thought I had one on me during our recent lunch. ;) I also carry a CRKT clip knife in my right front pocket everyday.

    If I open carry, which is not the norm, I use my full size M&P .40 with a 2 mag case on my belt and a Gerber.
  15. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    Hell you are a Monkey, I would expect nothing less. The only thing we did not discuss during lunch, was what field of fire we were each covering. [YD]

    And I had the Glock 34 with 58 rounds of ammo/3 mags
    Yard Dart likes this.
  16. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    It brings up an important aspect of carrying a firearm..... clothing selection. Do you have a heavy shirt that wears well un-tucked, that can assist in prevention of printing or accidental peek a boo's. Do you have the right holster for your carry style.... and so on.
  17. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    I use almost exclusively the Covert 511 shirts

    Look like buttons but they are all snaps so you can quickly rip open the shirt if needed.

    Two hidden chest pockets inside the shirt that are big enough to carry a tablet

    Special mesh fabric on the lower section that keeps the hip worm gun/mags from printing through.

    5.11 Tactical Covert Select Concealed Carry Shirt | Official 5.11 Site

    I buy mine when they have sales on

    If anyone is interest in that site I can provide you with a code so If you buy i get a spiff and it doesn't cost you any more.

    I also get my 511 pants and pack via that site as well.
    Yard Dart likes this.
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