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Carry Pistol.... Empty first chamber

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Blackjack, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Something I used to do when I worked in the projects was keep my first chamber empty (Colt King Cobra 357 revolver). I don't anymore, but I wonder if there is any merit to it now.

    1) Added safety against accidental discharge.

    2) In case someone would grab it, it would give me the edge I need to get it back

    3) I could still fire the first loaded chamber quickly, and 5 rounds should do.

    4) Reason 4 dropped.

    Do you think that the first chamber empty is a good idea, or was I not making much logical sense.
  2. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    safety wise:
    the modern "transfer bar" safety systems have eliminated the danger of a dropped handgun accidentally discharging...

    Otherwise ...no offense Man, but sounds like alot of movie fantasizing , if someone grabs it and is a complete idiot they may not sqeeze a da revolver twice, but I doubt it. In my humble troll like opinion this a.m. If you point a gun at me you are threatening my life and you better be ready to send projectiles my way, one click may be all the time I need to get inside your zone, slide a hand behind your belt buckle, pull you in all close and snugly and unzip you with a spyderco( you'll get me with the second chamber but you'll be holding your innards with one hand.( action is ALWAYS faster than reaction.) ...I thiink mind games belong in a script in a movie.
    " do you feel lucky , punk" will get you distracted and killed.Just an opinion I'm No tactical instructor so feel free to tell be to get bent..,

    Its only my Humble opinion, you can taunt perps in your world as you see fit......there's only one reason to pull a triger on someone....rant rant rant....Sorry black jack, I need more coffee bud. I think Y'all realize drawing a weapon is serious business...You may need that fast first shot outta the holster, though in a perfect world nobody would ever get the drop on you.
  3. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Blackjack, I think you should fill all chambers. In my way of thinking, if they are close enough to get your gun from you, you have failed. Now, if we are talking the double action revolvers, I'd say you still had time. Single action, you'd still have time. It is amazing what you can do under an adrenaline rush. Anyone that tries to come up and grab your pistol from your holster is an idiot and is wide open for what you want to do to them. Anyone that can grab your pistol while you are pointing it at them, is damn lucky you are so slow. If you ever pull it, use it. Don't do like you see the cops do.... 'Okay, get on the ground or I'll shoot you'. How long did it take to say that? Were you prepared for the 'enemy' lunging at you? Why did you draw down on them anyways?

    They have a gun as well? It's a situational thing, however I do suggest that you never leave a chamber empty. That's just my thoughts on it.

    Here's one you can try that I saw in the movies. If the bore is big enough, stick your finger in the barrel of the weapon pointed at you. Might lose a finger tip, though the guy behind the gun is gonna lose a face. Haha. Seriously, don't try that. I don't think it would work. That's something we can send to Mythbusters. Lord knows, they flaked on the Carlos test.
  4. Wild Trapper

    Wild Trapper Pirate Biker

    Absolutely not a good idea to leave one bullet out. Would not make the gun safer and you could go up against some scum bag hopped up on drugs, bent on suicide. Wouldn't that MAKE YOUR DAY? If you're going to carry it you have to know you can depend on it going bang every time you squeeze the trigger. In a self-defense class I witnessed a demonstration of a man with a knife attacking a man with a gun. The man with the knife was able to cover about seven yards and attack the man with the gun before the man with the gun could get his gun out and get it into action. Once you see that done, you'll never thing the same about your idea of self-defense again. I'm old and slower than I once was, it hurts to move fast, I would lose anyway in a situation like that, but I'd not have my weapon short a bullet for any reason. Pace off those seven long steps and see how long it take you to cover it. If you can get your gun out and into action in that amount of time, you might survive. Remember those 7 yds, think, what is my real safety zone and when you feel someone is entering that zone heighten your guard.
  5. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Well, we are talkin double action revolver, so it is quick to click the trigger twice.

    The situation I was in very often had people of questionable intent all around me, close enough to go for the pistol if they happened to see it under my overshirt. Keeping a safe distance wasn't an option.That was the thing that always concerned me. I figured if somebody did manage to grab it, I had a chance to get it back before they managed to pull the trigger twice.

    I'm not in that situation anymore, so I do load all 6.

    Just as a note Tango, it's not the round resting under the hammer that concerned me, it's the next chamber over, which is the first to be fired.
    It was probably just my paranoia about someone grabbing it working against my own best interest

    I dunno, still undecided, but beginning to lean toward "it was dumb" on my part.
  6. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Reason 4 dropped as invalid. You're right, if the weapon is drawn and pointed it should already be fired, none of this "hold it" stuff.
  7. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Had no idea we'd get all this discussion ( came back to remove mr. knowitall lecure from my original response).As far as action /reaction
    going through firearms training in the Air force OSI academy we practiced /demonstrated this prinvciple:
    one person put his 1911 toward the face ohf his partner, hammer cocked , and if you moved quickly enough both hands upward to trap and push the gun off taerget and move your face outta the line of fire you could beat this situation BEFORE THE SHOOTER COULD DROP THE HAMMER ON HIS 1911!!!!Action Always beats reaction. you could do it with tihe gun pointing from behind also.I am no longer that fast.

    but have no illusions sqeezing the trigger again for the next (live) cylinder is an aeon of time.alot can happen ( bad things in that seemingly short time. ):)Just trying to keep you safe bud....

    ,Seems I did misunderstand which chamber was empty. But still you may need that first bang and you really may not have time to think "oh crap, squeeze again"....I don't know if any "gurus" have taughtthis in lieu of "weapon-retention skills"
  8. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    It doesn't make any difference if the chamber under the hammer is empty or not in terms of firing time, single action or double action, because the hammer cocking rotates a live round beneath the hammer. If you are carrying an old model colt or knock-off single action, use an empty chamber, otherwise why bother?
  9. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    You are correct,I misunderstood his hypothetical scenario while responding( posting while blind) ; I think he carried the first round to the right of hammer empty ( smith DA) so if someone grabbed his weapon outta the holster and squeezed the trigger they would get an empty giving black jack the benefit of surprise to take it back then drill the evildoer....there's some bit of logic behind this...but i think most weighed in that it presents more dangers than it solved...Originally the now "edited" reason 4 was dropping the hammer on an empty to convice a bg you were enmpty, egging him on...Black jack himself recinded that idea...
  10. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    100 % correct Tango. My theory was that I couldn't avoid being in close contact, therefore, if somebody grabbed it, I'd still have a chance.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The seven yards thing is hokey, says me. I'm old and slow, it seems, my zone is 10 yards. Seven is for the young, quick and in full training regimes. I'll have to hollar "Make my day!" for the perp to hear it, no Dirty Harry whispers.
  12. Wild Trapper

    Wild Trapper Pirate Biker

    Yeah, me too, ten is much better. The two guys that demonstrated it are not young pups, but they are trained LEOs. So on the one hand they both show the results of too many donuts, but they are also trained in this exercise, so it was realistic in that sense. I had heard this long before I'd ever seen it done. Seeing is believing. So, while I have carried concealed in several situations, I've thankfully never had to get my weapon out in a hurry.

    BTW, that seven yards is not a magic number, it's just the average time it would take someone to cover that distance and the average time it would take a trained individual to react.
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Average for the athletes, or at least in good shape. I'm not.:mad:
  14. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    Regarding distance - this is from the 7 Steps to personal Safety by Richard Isaacs and Tim Powers:

    "In most cases, however, an attacker is going to get as close to you as he can before the assault.
    The most important thing to understand is how fast someone can get to you from distances that may seem safe to you, and that you believe — falsely — will give you enough time to act and respond. The average attacker can cover 5 feet in under a quarter of a second, 10 feet in under three-quarters of a second, and 21 feet in under one and a half seconds. A second and a half isn’t a lot of time. In fact, it’s less time than t takes most of us just to recognize, when we are not expecting trouble, that something is happening."
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