Flu Cat's bird flu death raises human fears

Discussion in 'Survival Medicine' started by E.L., Mar 3, 2006.

  1. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member


    Cat's bird flu death raises human fears

    A DOMESTIC cat found dead in Germany tested positive for bird flu yesterday, the first time the virus has been found in a mammal in Europe, the World Health Organisation said.

    The find increases concern that the virus could spread to other species in Europe as it has in other parts of the world.

    Maria Cheng, of the World Health Organisation, said: "We know that mammals can become infected with H5N1. But we don't know what this means for humans.

    "We don't know if they would play a role in transmitting the disease. We don't know how much virus the cats would excrete, how much people would need to be exposed to before they fell ill."

    Several big cats in Asian zoos have died after being fed with infected birds, and domestic cats have been shown to be particularly vulnerable. So far, however, no human has been infected by a cat.

    The cat was found dead on the Baltic Sea island of Ruegen, where most of 100-plus cases of H5N1-infected wild birds in Germany have been found. It is possible the cat ate a bird, Ms Cheng said.

    But scientists are particularly concerned about bird flu infecting pigs, because swine can also become infected with human flu virus. The fear is that the two viruses could swap genetic material and create a new virus and a human pandemic.

    Also yesterday, the US joined Japan in a ban of poultry shipments from France's Ain region, where bird flu was found in turkeys. Experts were also dispatched yesterday to the Bahamas to examine a spate of flamingo deaths. And Iraq said that it was carrying out checks for four suspected human cases of bird flu.

    • A "bird flu" car registration number has gone on sale on eBay for £9,000. The number HN51 FLU is billed as "the closest you can get to having a registration plate 'H5N1 FLU'."
  2. prepareordie

    prepareordie Monkey+++

    A Different View Point About Avian Flu

    All - here is a different view point on Avian Flu. Came across this link on www.survialblog.com. The article was posted on the AMA website.

    Just some food for thought. Regards, Prepareordie

    The Threat of an Avian Flu Pandemic is Over-Hyped
    by Michael Fumento, JD

    “It is only a matter of time before an avian flu virus—most likely H5N1—acquires the ability to be transmitted from human to human, sparking the outbreak of human pandemic influenza.” So declared Dr Lee Jong-wook, director-general of the World Health Organization last November [1].

    Fortunately, the assertion is as mistaken as it is terrifying.

    Looking to the Data
    The best-kept secret of the current fuss and, sadly enough, hysteria over H5N1 is that the virus has been in existence well beyond its highly publicized Hong Kong appearance in 1997; the virus was initially discovered in Scottish chickens in 1959 [2]. The virus has therefore been mutating and making contact with humans for 47 years. If it hasn’t become pandemic in that half a century, it’s hardly inevitable that it will.

    Indeed, blood samples collected from rural Chinese in 1992 show 2-7 percent of those sampled were infected with some variant of H5; by extrapolation to the larger population, this equates to many millions of people [3]. Experts such as microbiologist Peter Palese of the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York believe that more than a million of these infections could have been H5N1 infections, although samples were not tested for variants of neuraminidase, a surface antigen, the “N” in H5N1 [4].

    The Chinese data demonstrate that if H5N1 were going to become pandemic in humans, “ it should have happened already,” Palese wrote in an e-mail on February 3, 2006. “Probably an H5 can’t make it in humans,” he suggests, referring to the virus’s ability to go beyond the original host. This cross-species infection can occur via either mutation or “reassortment.” Reassortment means a host is infected by RNA segments from 2 different flu strains, giving rise to a third strain combining various traits—including theoretically one with the virulence and pathogenicity of H5N1 and the human-to-human transmissibility of an A or B strain of seasonal flu.

    The Chinese serological data also help supply evidence that discredits the notion that H5N1 kills half its victims [5]. The 50 percent figure reflects bias selection in that it is based only on those who become sick enough to come to the attention of authorities [6].

    Furthermore, if H5N1 isn’t the particular strain likely to start a pandemic, there’s no reason to expect that any virus will cause a pandemic in the near future. Yet a near-future pandemic seems to be our only serious public health concern.

    More Prepared than We Think
    In reality, our ability to handle a potential pandemic is more than trivial. Everyday, stockpiles of the neuraminidase-inhibiting antivirals, Tamiflu and Relenza, continue to grow, while manufacturing plants are converted to produce even more. New antivirals such as peramivir are being tested on the grounds that they may be as effective, or more so, than current antiviral standbys. These new drugs are also touted as superior in their ability to stave off resistant influenza strains because they are administered by injection, rather than by means of the readily abused Tamiflu pills and oral solutions [7, 8].

    Vaccines are currently in development using reverse genetics to replicate only the antibody-provoking part of the virus. This speeds up the process of “seeding” chicken eggs to grow vaccine and prevents an avian virus from killing the avian egg [9]. Furthermore, eggs are being replaced by cell culture growth conditions in vaccine production. Several types of vaccines are already produced in this medium and H5N1 vaccine soon will be. This technology could triple the speed of vaccine production [10].

    The potential to develop the capacity to stockpile vaccines instead of producing annual batches is promising. Two different research teams have used a crippled adenovirus as a carrier for a hemagglutinin surface protein (the “H” in H5N1) to provide complete protection from H5N1 in rodents. Regardless of whether the vaccine was made from a 1997 H5N1 strain or a 2005 strain, it offered cross-protection against the other [11, 12]. Scientists at Chiron Corporation tested blood from people who had received an experimental vaccine against a 1997 strain of H5N1 bird flu and found that it provoked a powerful cross-reaction from a strain that killed several Vietnamese in 2004 [13]. These data counter the oft-heard claim that we can’t develop a vaccine until H5N1 becomes pandemic, since the pandemic strain will necessarily differ slightly from the current strain found in birds [14].

    Considering Historical Precedent
    With each new human case of avian flu, we’re warned yet again that pandemic H5N1 could be upon us any time, long before we’re prepared. These pronouncements reflect media ignorance of how viruses change and a failure on the part of those who know better to correct them. Despite what we commonly hear, H5N1 is not mutating, even slowly, toward becoming a pathogen capable of causing a pandemic.

    There are no evolutionary pressures upon H5N1 to become more efficiently transmitted either from bird to human or from human to human; the virus mutates randomly. No thief listening with a stethoscope is picking a lock on Pandora’s pandemic box one tumbler at a time. Rather, as one mutation brings the virus closer to human transmissibility, another is just as likely to draw it farther away.

    We’re also routinely told that we’re “overdue” for a pandemic, with H5N1 the likeliest cause. Insert the search terms “avian flu,” “pandemic,” and “overdue” into Google and you’ll get about 35 000 hits. The director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, Anthony Fauci, insists we’re “overdue,” explaining that there were 3 pandemics in the 20th century and the last was in 1968. It’s been 38 years since the last pandemic [15]. Yet the time between the second and third pandemics was only 11 years. There’s no cycle. As risk communication experts Peter Sandman and Jody Lanard say, the “overdue pandemic” is mere superstition [16].

    The Role of Modern Medicine
    More harm comes from working assumptions that the next pandemic could be on par with the worst in history, the 1918-1919 Spanish flu. The main champion of this worst-case scenario is University of Minnesota School of Public Health professor Michael Osterholm. He extrapolates the estimated death toll from the Spanish flu to today’s population and generates an oft-quoted estimate of 180 to 360 million deaths worldwide were such a pandemic to occur today [17].

    The comparison certainly gets headlines, but regardless of either the virulence or pathogenicity of any human-to-human transmissible flu, it’s folly to ignore almost 8 decades of medical advances. In 1918 there were no antiviral medications. You couldn’t map out a viral genome, much less do so in about a week’s time as was done with severe acute respiratory syndrom (SARS) 3 years ago [18, 19]. In 1918, there was absolutely no hope of developing a wide-scale vaccine before the pandemic burned out on its own. Most importantly, perhaps, there were no antibiotics and no pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine (PSV). One PSV injection protects against 23 of the deadliest types of pneumococcal bacteria, has proven effective in reducing deaths secondary to influenza infection, and can be delivered well in advance of any pandemic [20]. Developments in communication and transportation have greatly advanced in the last century, ie, the ability of people to get to places where a vaccine is being delivered.

    Indeed, the value of antibiotics is perhaps the most overlooked distinguishing factor between the historic influenza pandemic and any pandemic that would occur today. Another champion of the Spanish flu paradigm is Laurie Garrett, author of the alarmist 1994 book The Coming Plague [21]. Garrett wrote an influential Foreign Affairs article in 2005 declaring that while, “most strains of the flu do not kill people directly,” the Spanish flu “was a direct killer.” She adds, “Had antibiotics existed, they may not have been much help” [22]. She couldn’t be more wrong.

    There are real indications that the Spanish flu was more likely to kill directly than subsequent pandemics. But even here, anecdotal evidence of people suddenly dropping dead on trolley cars can be deceiving. “Often influenza victims seemed to recover, even returned to work, then suddenly collapsed again with bacterial pneumonia,” explains John Barry, in his 2004 Spanish flu book, The Great Influenza [23]. In 1918, most people died in the fashion of subsequent flu epidemics and pandemics. “Autopsy records from New York City found that most of the deaths [from Spanish flu] occurred at the end of the first week and beginning of the second,” according to a phone interview with University of Virginia virologist Frederick Hayden on October 15, 2005.

    Researchers at Stanford University have assembled a Web site that quotes from the medical journals of the time, such as this from the British Medical Journal of 1918: “The principal danger of an influenza infection was its tendency to progress into the often fatal bacterial infection of pneumonia.” Commenting generally on these journals’ observations, the Stanford site says, “It was this tendency for secondary complications that made this influenza infection so deadly” [24].

    Barry writes that even without modern drugs, “doctors could help. They could save lives. If they were good enough, if they had the right resources, if they had the right help, if they had time” [25]. This illustrates another tremendous difference between 1918 and now. Now we have their experience.

    There is no gain in spreading an epidemic of hysteria. One price we’re already paying is that people take antivirals like Tamiflu before they have any symptoms of disease. This contributes to viral resistance to medications, as it has in southern Vietnam [26]. Another problem with public hysteria is that while we stockpile Tamiflu and utilize other expensive, second-line measures that should be reserved for those situations in which a pandemic has taken hold, we ignore first-line measures that can prevent the development of a pandemic in the first place. These options include vaccinating poultry, eliminating infected flocks, and showing Asian farmers how to have as little contact with their birds and bird droppings as possible.

    To some extent these actions are already under way, but many of the regions most directly affected include impoverished nations that cannot afford vaccinations for all poultry and may not have funds to reimburse farmers for killing all suspect birds. The result is endangered fowl left unvaccinated and alive. Developed nations need to become as involved as possible in containment efforts of developing nations, providing both expertise and financial support. To the extent that there is any risk of pandemic avian flu, it can be reduced to zero by eliminating bird-to-human transmission [27].

    In conclusion, the panic we induce today will come back to haunt us. Americans still remember the swine flu fiasco in which a single death led to hysteria followed by a national vaccination program that itself appeared to cause an outbreak of disease [28]. SARS led to 750 stories in the New York Times and Washington Post—about 1 per death worldwide [29]. Indeed, SARS fell rather short of the New Scientist claim that, “it now seems clear that in the absence of a cure or a vaccine, SARS could eventually kill millions” [30]. The false fears we sow today we shall reap in the future as public complacency if a monster truly appears at the door.

    Notes and References
    1. Knox N. WHO: “Matter of time” before pandemic strikes. USA Today. November 7, 2005. Available at: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-11-07-who-flu_x.htm. Accessed February 3, 2006.
    2. World Health Organization. Avian Influenza A(H5N1)—Update 31: Situation (poultry) in Asia: Need for a Long-term Response, Comparison with Previous Outbreaks. March 2, 2004. Available at: http://www.who.int/csr/don/2004_03_02/en. Accessed February 3, 2006.
    3. Shortridge KF. Pandemic influenza: a zoonosis? Semin Respir Infect. 1992;7:11-25.
    4. Palese P. Influenza: old and new threats. Nat Med. 2004;10:S82-87.
    5. For example, see ABC News Primetime. Are We Ready for the Bird Flu? Laurie Garrett segment. Available at: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Flu/story?id=1170177&page=1. Accessed February 3, 2006.
    6. Thorson A, Petzold M, Nguyen TK, Ekdahl K. Is exposure to sick or dead poultry associated with flu-like illness?: Population-based study from a rural area in Vietnam with outbreaks of highly pathogenic avian influenza. Arch Intern Med. 2006;166:119-123.
    7. Barroso L, Treanor J, Gubareva L, Hayden FG. Efficacy and tolerability of the oral neuraminidase inhibitor peramivir in experimental human influenza: randomized, controlled trials for prophylaxis and treatment. Antivir Ther. 2005;10:901-910.
    8. Hubbard R. Flu drug put on fast track. Birmingham News. January 18, 2006. Available at: http://www.al.com/business/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/
    business/113757973711140.xml&coll=2. Accessed February 3, 2006.
    9. Nicolson C, Major D, Wood JM, Robertson JS. Generation of influenza vaccine viruses on Vero cells by reverse genetics: an H5N1 candidate vaccine strain produced under a quality system. Vaccine. 2005;23:2943-2952.
    10. Becker A. Momentum builds for cell-culture flu vaccines. CIDRAP News. June 27, 2005. Available at: http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/
    influenza/ general/news/june2705cell.html. Accessed February 4, 2006.
    11. Hoelscher M, Garg S, Bangari DS, et al. Development of adenoviral-vector-based pandemic influenza vaccine against antigenically distinct human H5N1 strains in mice. Lancet. 2006;367:475-481.
    12. Gao W, Soloff AC, Lu X, et al. Protection of mice from lethal H5N1 avian influenza virus through adenovirus-based immunization. J Virol. 2006;80:1959-1964.
    13. Mackenzie D, Choo K. Bird flu: kick-start vaccination or face the consequences. New Sci. Available at: http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg18825215.900 Accessed February 4, 2006.
    14. Schultz J. Bird flu vaccine won’t precede pandemic. Quoting Daniel Lucey, co-director of the Biohazardous Threats and Emerging Diseases graduate program at Georgetown University: “There is no H5N1 pandemic so there can be no pandemic vaccine.” United Press International Web site. Available at: www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDaily/view.php?StoryID=20051128-054641-9412r. Accessed February 4, 2006.
    15. Grady D. Odds of bird flu pandemic proving difficult to calculate. Deseret News. Available at: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,615156470,00.html. Accessed February 3, 2006.
    16. Sandman P, Lanard J. Pandemic influenza risk communication: the teachable moment. December 4, 2004. Available at: http://www.psandman.com/col/pandemic.htm. Accessed February 3, 2006.
    17. Osterholm M. Preparing for the next pandemic. N Engl J Med. 2005;352:1839-1842.
    18. Marra MA, Jones SJ, Astell CR, et al. The genome sequence of the SARS-associated coronavirus. Science. 2003;300:1399-1404.
    19. Canada’s high-tech cancer fight. Toronto Star. March 20, 2004:F04.
    20. Vila-Corcoles A, Ochoa-Gondar O, Llor C, Hospital I, Rodriguez T, Gomez A. Protective effect of pneumococcal vaccine against death by pneumonia in elderly subjects. Eur Respir J. 2005;26:1086-1091.
    21. Garrett L. The Coming Plague. New York, NY: Penguin Books; 1995.
    22. Garrett L. The next pandemic? Foreign Affairs. Available at: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701faessay84401-p10/laurie-garrett/the-next-pandemic.html. Accessed February 12, 2006.
    23. Barry J. The Great Influenza: The Epic Story of the Deadliest Plague in History. New York, NY: Penguin Books; 2004:251.
    24. Stanford Program in Human Biology Web site. The Medical and Scientific Conceptions of Influenza. Available at: http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/fluscimed.html. Accessed February 4, 2006.
    25. Barry J, The Great Influenza, 316.
    26. de Jong MD, Tran TT, Truong HK, et al. Oseltamivir resistance during treatment of influenza A (H5N1) infection. N Engl J Med. 2005;353:2667-2672.
    27. Perez D, Sorrell E, Donis R. Avian influenza: An omnipresent pandemic threat. Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2005;24:S208-S216.
    28. Sencer DJ, Millar JD. Reflections on the 1976 Swine Flu Vaccination Program. Emerg Infect Dis. 2006;12:29-33.
    29. World Health Organization. Summary of Probable SARS Cases with Onset of Illness from 1 November 2002 to 31 July 2003. Available at: http://www.who.int/csr/sars/country/table2004_04_21/en/index.html. Accessed on February 4, 2006.
    30. MacKenzie D. SARS much more deadly than first estimated. New Sci. Available at: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3662. Accessed February 4, 2006.

    Michael Fumento, JD, a senior fellow with the Hudson Institute in Washington, DC, is an author, journalist, and attorney specializing in health and science issues.

    The viewpoints expressed on this site are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the AMA.
  3. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    The way I lok at it is basicly this. It may hit and be 10 x worse that the greatest doomers and glomers say or it may never so much as make a bird sneeze here or anywhere inbetween on the spectrum, but simply by bringing up the possibility it helps folks look and think about things that COULD happen and how they could deal with them. If it dose hit with most any level of severity then if a person has prepaired for it then it becomes for them either a non event or a far lesser event and if it dosnt hit then, assumeing they havent climbed in a hole and pulled the dirt in after them, they are no worse off and simply better prepaired for whatever else may happen, on the other hand if a person has done nothing to prepair for it or even the time to consider how they could best deal with it then if it strikes even far less severly than widely thought likely then that person is going to be in a very similar position to those at the dome in New Orleans after Katrina, unprepaired and looking for someone to save them who is likely not even on the way or will be very slow in the coming.
  4. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    There are different schools of though, no doubt. I don't expect to see a pandemic, however I do plan on being prepared, for it and other things. As someone once said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
  5. prepareordie

    prepareordie Monkey+++

    Monkeyman and E.L. Thanks for your comments. I agree completely we should all be prepared for almost any situation or at least have thought about it and done some planning. But my time and budget has limits so I try to focus most of my time and preparedness budget on those events that are most likely to occur and will have the highest impact on me and my family.

    Example: Based on a 1 to 10 scale with 1 being no probability and 10 being a sure thing, my best judgment is that the probability of an all out Nuclear war with Russia or China in the next 30 years is a 6 or a better than 50/50 proposition. Then I look at the direct impact to me and my family with 1 being least impact and 10 being the most impact. Because I live in low risk of attack area and in a area that will mostly free from fall out I rate impact as a 4. So while I am doing some things to prepare I won't be sinking all my money and time into a complex fall out shelter that other people might need to build.

    By the way my judgment about things changes constantly as I get new facts about situations, so I am always updating my survival strategy. Which is one reason I joined this forum.

    Given that we all probably have limited time and budgets to prepare for different events I would like to hear from others on how they prioritize their preparedness planning.

    Does anyone else go through this type of exercise? or do you think this is going overboard? Regards, Prepareordie
  6. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I am willing to bet most of us here have had the same thoughts, and we prioritize our resources as such. The one thing to me that is most important is food and water. You can't live without it for too long. Stocking up on canned goods and water storage is always a good idea. After all, you are going to eat the canned goods anyway. Why not buy a few extra cans, or extra cases? Slowly but surely you will build up your food supply. As for as prioritizing, survival to me means a lot of different things. I believe that we are a lot more likely to have weather related or economy related SHTF situations. While the posiblities do exist for pandemics, EMP blast, war, and even attacks by Mutant Zombie Bikers (due credit to Hallfast, btw if you haven't read "Lights Out" you are really missing out) I don't see them as likely to happen or as high on the priority list. That does not mean I don't consider them, just that they are not as high a priority. I think that the first step is to consider what is likely to happen, and plan appropriately. Natural disaster, economic pitfalls either to myself or the economy in general, power outages, dwindling food supplies, the list goes on and on. Buying extra food, and including adding that to your budget every week/month is a real basic start. Plant a garden, a few fruit trees if possible, learning to can food products, obtaining a way to store water, those things will get you by during a lot of serious situations. I have even read on other forums where members have talked about being injured and out of work for extended periods of time, they got by on their supply of food they had stored and didn't have to spend the little amount of money that had on food. You can't plan for every contingency, but you can start with the basics and build on it. Save a few bucks here and there too, having some money put back is also a life saver too. Most of us have been through power outages. If you had one, do you have a way to cook? Propane bottles, Coleman stoves and lights, extra candles, ability to make fire, firewood, can you make an emergency shelter outside if caught in a storm, and can your loved ones survive too? I think that is something that lots of us overlook, we can get by, but what if we aren't there. Can our wives and children? Do they have the skills and knowledge to survive in adverse conditions? Just food for though. It's all about priorities.

    Glad to have you aboard.
  7. prepareordie

    prepareordie Monkey+++

    E. L. - Thanks for the comments - Well said. And thanks for the welcome.

    Regards, prepareordie
  8. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

  9. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    For me the top of the list is ecinomic disaster be it personal or widespread that is the top concern but I look at it in the framework that if money becomes nonexistant iether or worthless either in my own acount or all over and I can no longer buy anything then can I still maintain the necessities of food, water, shelter and clothing and hopefuly a few of the niceties and what do I need to do to be able to?

    The other priority to me is being able to protect my self an my family be it from a curent time crack head or TEOTWAKI MZB's and the same firearms that and ammo that would cover those needs also aid in hunting and such to provide food.

    I figure if I can be prepaired for financial devistation and protection of my self, my family and my property then there is very little about most any of the other scenarios that would not be pretty well covered, so my basic goal that I am constantly working toward is simply to be more self reliant. The overall pie in the sky version would be to have multiple sources of income that would at least cover taxes and such and be able to provide all food and other basic needs our selves from our farm includeing electricity and so on, so that weather money is the problem or anything else is then if filling our needs through buying or tradeing for them is no longer an option we will still be meeting them on our own.
  10. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Annual Flu Shot

    Well... stood in line for 40 minutes today for my free flu shot....;)

    Avian Flu has me not taking any chances.... never used to get it until last year....:rolleyes:

    My arm is sore and I feel a little lousy.... :mad: but other than that.... I'm glad I got done with.....:)

    Seems like Avian Flu have fallen off the radar screen....foosed

    That's usually just about the time it "smacks" you upside the head.... :D better keep one eye on this one too... lots going on across the big pond in Indonesia etc.....
  11. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I've been thinking the same thing. I haven't heard or read anything about it for at least 6 weeks. What's the latest?
  12. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    We need to get ours also. A pneumonia shot too.
  13. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yep...I always get the pneumonia shot as well....after having it several times as a child....well...blech!

    One of the grocery stores here offers them for $5 apiece....This Saturday...
    Never had any adverse effects...never hurt..never felt poorly afterward..

    It's just what I do...
  14. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Isnt the pneumonia a once in a life time shot? or twice if you get the first one while really young?
  15. ~kev~

    ~kev~ Monkey+++


    Guys, I dont want to break the bad news to you, but the flu vaccine is only good for six months. If you get your flu shot at the first of october, it will wear off around march. Peak flu season is from december to march. Try not to get your flu shot until the middle to late october.
  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    It was a once a lifetime shot with a suggested booster at some point, Not sure) until last year.

    My doc gave me my first pneu last yr and told me the new follow up is 5 yrs from then and your good forever.
  17. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    I don't get the shot. Never have. I might get what's going around at the beginning of the season, but then make it through the rest of the season. This is similar to what I've seen with my children. They seem to catch everything at younger ages, but it seems that as their immunities grow, with age and exposure, it takes a freight train to knock 'em down.

    :?: Please help me understand why I (and/or family members) should be subjected to a shot each year. Isn't the shot made up from the/combo of virus/(es) that they think will hit in a given year? Doesn't fighting a disease on my own help to build my immunities?
  18. ridgerunner58

    ridgerunner58 Monkey+++

    Right on,Tracy.I don't get them & never have. I work in a nursing home & they don't seem to help those who get them & there are reactions.

    My youngest daughter never received any immunization shots and is healthy as can be. My son has a doctor for a father-in-law...his children get all their shots and are constantly sick.
  19. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    I don't get the flu shot for a different reason. There's a dude here in East Texas that took one a few years ago, and the shot ate the white matter in his brain. He was a powerlifter, big dude, now he's a vegetable, his parents care for him. His parents checked around and there were like 25 people nationwide that the same thing happened to.
  20. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I got one of the very first ones..Years ago.

    Also when they came out with the polio vaccine? On a sugar cube?

    I was asthmatic as a child...They swore I'd never live to be 16....(hence being spoiled rotten by both sides of grandparents....:rolleyes: ) Fooled them..

    Missed most of the 6th grade...almost ALL of the 7th grade..but thank God for private schools and no requirements for showing up...As long as I could pass all the tests, and I did, I was ok...

    I also developed my love of reading back then...Since there was so much I couldn't do? I read...that was how I discovered other lands, times, and people....and a lifelong passion for the written word.

    But, also, every time a new vaccine came along? I was one of the first they gave it to....I guess they figured I wasn't going to live anyway...may as well try it on her...;) (of course, it was under the guise of "making sure she doesn't get anything that will further compromise her system..")

    Never hurt me...I just don't sweat the small stuff anymore...We're here for a good time, not a long time...
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