Caveman welding

Discussion in 'Bushcraft' started by William Antrum, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    im doing fine ...
    i had a head ache for a few hours but nutting a glass of milk didnt cure the next time ,...

    it wasnt fun and i hate doing but sure as hell didnt kill me or make me sick for a long time ...

    Maybee thats y i cant spellllll
  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Welding / heating galvanized metals vaporized the metals used in the galvanizing process.
    These metals (typically zinc) get inhaled if you are not wearing a resporator and are toxic to the body.
    Most people exposed have a mild reaction, kind of like the flu that can take a few days to recover from.

    Others can have acute reactions requiring hospitalization and recovery from organ damage may be permanently disabled.

    So, if you are going to be welding those galvanized fence posts, lots of air circulation and maybe some research about methods for welding galvanized materials before sparking up.

    End of my PSA.
  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Nothing to take lightly KAS, had a co-worker that wound up in hospital for 2 months as he had a toxic reaction. Lost a kidney, almost lost his life.
  4. William Antrum

    William Antrum GunMetal Monkey

    Well To tell yo the TRUTH it will all kill you and make you deathly ill,Key ingreadiant in aluminum welding wire? Hexavalent chromium say that ten times fast. This is what killed thousand and made the rest sick or infeartile for life. Gal on the other hand is a surface coating if you grind down to bare metal weld your weld and cold spray gal you should last a bit longer.
    kellory and VisuTrac like this.
  5. William Antrum

    William Antrum GunMetal Monkey

    yes if I can quit beein lazy I will up load a pic of the anvil I made years ago
  6. DMGoddess

    DMGoddess Monkey+

    that that that that that that that that that that biglaff
    Just a little levity, guys.
  7. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

    How about low temp silver brazing? Only need a propane torch for most applications and it bonds dissimilar metals as strong as many welds.
    KAS and BTPost like this.
  8. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Maybe, I have welded galvanized plate and pipe for some time. I am still alive and breathing well. OTOH, I have friends that worked around asbestos. I was lucky enough to have only a limited time around the asbestos. The deal with zinc smoke is to never breath it.
    arleigh and KAS like this.
  9. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Working Monkey Founding Member

    The last time I got galvanic poisoning was from cutting Q-Decking for piping penetrations with an oxy/acetylene torch. This was done in a multi-story building under construction with no exterior walls built yet and no interior walls either, building was just a skeleton and well ventilated. I felt sick to my stomach, headache and drank a few glasses of milk and was fine. Been exposed more than once and still alive for now.

    I would imagine one would need to be exposed to some highly concentrated vapors from cutting galvanized steel for quite sometime before one would die from it. How long that exposure would take, not sure. and as you mentioned some have different reactions, luckily mine was temporary.

    We never gave it any consideration at the time, as we all felt the ventilation was more than adequate. I was exposed to the fumes for about four hours before I started to feel the effects. I would imagine the effects would have been sooner in an area without any ventilation.
    KAS likes this.
  10. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Zinc (galvanizing) is a contaminant in welding you need to remove any way before welding, and every thing will be just fine.
    have never gotten sick not even slightly .
    another factor in making good welds is, preheating the material ,it accomplishes several things including getting the moisture out of the metal . which is also a contaminant .
    California out laws so many good products its frustrating. In the old days we used triclorethelene to remove oils and contaminants form the steel before welding , when that disappeared I found a product made by 3m called (paint prep) . the beauty was it vaporized completely and washes al the oils and water out of the metal as well , It smells just like spray can paint . I think it has triclorethelene as well . I've used it before welding and it's great no flare up, no residue.
    As for brushes , I have stainless brushes strictly for aluminum nothing else.
    Steel brushes leave a deposit on the aluminum which is a contaminant.
    I do mig, tig, gas, arc, friction, and forge weld. I'd love a resistance welder but I don't do production to justify the investment..
    Years ago there was an out fit selling a little Honda engine driving an automotive alternator welding set up, but I haven't seen it in years.
    I think it didn't work out,, in the long run the diodes cant take the heat. even with special ones.
    I believe that if you plan on using batteries for welding , have them set aside specifically for that function don't be taking them off your vehicles . Rig an isolator relay for charging them and you can use them in stead of the truck battery for other things a well like a wench or lighting and running an inverter for other things.
    If you can afford horsing around in the boonies, you can afford the batteries.
  11. bagpiper

    bagpiper Heretic

    I was told, vehemently, by many, that steel needs to be clean and bright in order to forge weld it.
    But, on History channel, the show "Iron and Fire", showed Daniel Casey take some old rusted cable, and made some Damascus, so as an experiment, I found some old bailing wire, rusted all to hell, so I said WTF...
    I twisted up about ten strands and threw it in the forge, rust and all.
    Heated it to white, and started love tapping it on the anvil.
    Guess what, it turned into a single bar, the few inclusions were from sloppy and imprecise hammering, I really didn't care about the finished result. Only looking for a single piece of metal.
    After I started hammering it became clear, this was welding very easy.
    But, I was told forge welding was only for experienced black smiths...
    The rust, appeared to act as a perfect flux?
    I am going to try this battery thing, got about 150 lbs of some old rods that need testing. Will dry and clean first.
    (Need to get some kinda modern welding rig put together, just because...)
  12. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I wish that I could find a reasonable source for calcium carbide, but it is all so over priced , but a great way to store acetylene gas .
    Having/knowing several means of welding let's one use their resources more efficiently ,more appropriately to fit the need .
    Low temperature techniques are sufficient for needs that are not life threatening, but for those situations that can turn to a liability, it's best to use materials and techniques best suited for the job ,if at all possible.
    Post SHTF no one is going to be able to demand more than what is available ,but till then appropriate welding practices are best developed and maintained.
    Nothing wrong with learning secondary skills for emergencies ,but if you fudge and things go wrong, your name is on it.
    Just sayin .
  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Since I build and modify welding machines I really don't think a 12 volt battery and a stick welding electrode is going to do much of anything.
    To maintain a welding arc with a stick electrode you need between 20 and 29 volts to keep the arc going. To start the arc you need much higher voltage. For example my little 120 volt transformer based stick and tig welder only develops between 34 and 44 volts at no load or when not actually welding, it is very difficult to get the arc started with some rods on the lowest voltage settings with low "open current voltage". But my engine drive welder that makes 77 volts at no load and my big 230 amp machine powered by 240 volt AC power makes up to 125 volts at no load if the incorrect settings are used. They both start every kind of rod very easily.
    Note: anything over 48 volts is considered dangerous, all the new fancy electronic controlled machines are limited to 48, volts OSHA limits welding machines open current to something like 86 or 88 volts, my big machine can be very dangerous.
    Problem with using a single battery is the welding arc is little more than a modified some what controlled short circuit. So a 12 volt battery short circuited is going to drop its voltage down to between 7 to 10 volts. Problem is I don't think the stick welding rod arc will even stay lit with less than 15 or 16 volts. With low arc volts you have to run a very tight electrode gap, that make it easy to stick the rod to the work.
    Tig welding on the other hand can use lower voltage, I measure between 11 and 16 volts while tig welding. The argon atmosphere and pointy electrode makes it very easy for those electrons to flow from the electrode to the work.
    My little 120 volt powered machine is perfect for tig welding, it preforms as well as $1000+ inverter machines. It turns out its lower voltage is ideal for tig welding.
  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I saw something about keeping welding rods sealed up.
    That is only for low hydrogen rods. These like to absorb moisture.
    You can leave them out in the air and they will burn fine but the strength wont be there.
    These are your rods that end with the last 2 numbers being 15,16, 18 and 28.
    You will pretty much never see a rod that ends in 15 or 28 and 16 is kind of rare.
    For example 7018 is the most common low hydrogen and need to be kept in a sealed up container or an oven.
    You can find a lot of 7016 or 10016 as military surplus for cheap some times. These are low hydrogen that also need to be kept dry.
    I also use 10018, also needs to be kept dry. About the only time you will see rods ending in 18 besides 7018 such as 11018, 10018, 9018 or 8018 is pipe line code work.
    To keep my rods dry and moisture free I put them in those plastic air tight containers and put the plastic containers in a large metal ammo can.
    Cellulose rods that end in 10 and 11 such as 6010 and 6011 like moisture they actually need some moisture to help get them started.
survivalmonkey SSL seal warrant canary