Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Opinionated, Sep 12, 2011.
» New Worry: RFID Tracking Chips in Firearms? - Big Government
Butt-ugly guns anyway . . .
If a chip can be put in it can be taken out. Market will dictate weather it was a smart move or not.
All the more reason to stick with the vintage tried and true firearms I already have.
I agree with both of you.
Jason, folks have got to know they are there in order to take them out. How much you want to bet that the fact that they are there is not highly publicized?
Most especially by the manufacturer OR any of the mass media outlets . . .
Its just like the 'black boxes' in most automobiles these days. When they were introduced they were played down. The manufacturers even went so far as to say they were for use *only*in servicing the vehicle at the dealership.
.. then their "testimony" started showing up in court.
Big bother is not our friend. He lies a LOT.
Hell Yeah...I'll buy a Chiappa...!!!
Right about the time that they put ''Chip's" in Criminals and Congressmen and Senator's...
From what I have read, they are hot-glued onto the frame and used in the inventory process. Also, the chip is passive.
HOWEVER, I agree that the guns are butt-ugly and have changed my viewpoint on foreign-made purchases to be 'as little as possible.'
I think if I were the mfg co., I would've put the chip somewhere really noticeable where there'd be no question it was there and obvious to remove. I think currently, you have to field-strip it to remove (which is suspicious in my mind).
HK P2000 with RFID tracking chip .........
. . why would anyone want to buy one of those ?!?
So...... I thought it SOP to ALWAYS strip a new gun down, to properly clean & lube..... and now to remove the 'ticks'.......
Especially new to me guns.
Found this on another website...Seem's someone requested more info...
Chiappa Firearms avant-garde: the new RFID system that aids in manufacturing.
Chiappa Firearms, Manufacturer - August 2011
We have received a lot of mail expressing disappointment about the RFID project that we have in development. Some of them were very offensive, and may have triggered an exasperated reaction from some of our distributors. However, this shower of complaints has been very helpful in letting us understand the position of the US market. As you can well imagine, it is not our intention to upset the American consumer, who has been our primary customer for over fifty years.
We wish to explain our position with the RFID system, and the reason why this technology would benefit both Chiappa Firearms as the manufacturer and you as the consumer.
What is an RFID system
RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) has become the industry standard for the identification of objects, animals, human implants for medical treatment, and even food products. Already established in telecommunications and electronics, RFID technology is expanding in diverse fields due to the enormous benefits it offers compared to barcodes or magnetic strips: RFID chips are read by special transponders in a tenth of a second, and not only a singular code such as by barcodes, but a collection of information can be programmed with options to be rewritten if necessary.
Why is Chiappa Firearms working to introduce RFID
Firearms manufacturers in Italy are faced with tremendous obstacles while complying with laws and regulations of the manufacturing and transport of firearms and their components. These restrictions include all types of firearms, including historic replicas, blank firers and black powder muzzleloaders.
Chiappa Firearms is one of the most technologically advanced firearms companies in the world, pioneering automated methods of manufacture and machining, yielding some of the most innovative designs in firearms such as the Rhino revolver. 100% of the weapon components are produced in-house, and our production turnover has increased substantially in the past years.
This is the reason why Chiappa Firearms, along with the associated participation of the Consorzio Armaioli Italiani (Italian Consortium of Gunsmiths), the Italian Proof House and a few other firearms manufacturers, have been working for the past two years on methods to incorporate RFID technology in the production of its firearms. The aim is to expedite the entire process of manufacturing and transport of products to the National Proof House in Italy, and to meet the increasingly homogeneous European rules.
The difficulty of introducing RFID in firearms
A firearm may be logged in and out multiple times before it is sent to the National Proof House prior to final disposition and exportation. Initially, the desire was to develop a RFID chip that would allow the reading of a group of firearms such as a pallet of products passing thru a reader in a doorway allowing immediate processing of all of the components in a container en route to an offsite destination.
The placement of the RFID chip however, must be done in a manner so that the aesthetic properties of the firearm are not diminished and that the integrity of the chip during metal finishing processes is maintained.
Locations for the chip have been chosen that would be in non visible areas such as beneath the grip or stock. Due to the required placement of the chip within a small pocket of the metallic receiver, reading the chip from any distance greater than 10”, even with the most powerful transponder, was found to be impossible. It was found that a standard reader can only read the chip from about 2” - which is still suitable for most production requirements, though.
Possible developments of Chiappa Firearms RFID system
The tracking system has to be similar to the barcode, but needs to be readable and writable several times during the production process, since many components progress into various stages changing their sub-codes. Our initial idea was to go further, and allow our customers to use this electronic barcode information in their logistics, pricing system, item coding, and so on.
However, with all the comments we received made us reconsider a correct balance between our logistic needs and the needs of the American customer, who does not like to undergo a potential – or even remotely possible - form of control.
Since our project is still in a phase of development - our goal was to implement the RFID system in spring 2012 - we still have plenty of time to develop a similar system, but employing a removable label instead of a chip inlet inside the receiver. This label made of plastic material can be applied to the trigger guard of the weapon, follow throughout the production cycle and be removed prior to marketing or by the customer.
The US consumer can rest assured that Chiappa Firearms is placing the customer’s interest first and foremost, while developing the most efficient method of firearm manufacturing possible.
Media Professionals For more (accurate) information you may contact:
Chiappa Firearms, Ltd., importer and manufacturer of Chiappa Firearms
They must have read my post.
Chiappa Arms, too bad, so sad, don't let the door hit you in the a$$ as you close your factory.
My buddy's shop has a couple of the Chiappa Arms .22lr cal 1911s in the case. Next time I'm in there, we'll have to field strip and check for RFID's.
As for HK- that doesn't supprise me. Germany's laws are so counterproductive to their business that they take it out on the American civillian consumer. I almost bought an HK SL8 a few years back for the paltry sum of $800. It actually was rather nice to hold, and very ergonomic. Even though I am not a fan of thumbhole stocks, this was a very neat rifle. I really wanted to buy it.
I decided not to get it for a few reasons, but mostly because it uses a proprietary magazine design (that costs five times as much as your common AR magazine and only holds 20 rounds). Why not use AR magazines? They are everywhere, they are very reliable as of late, and they are cheap and plentiful. Because Germany won't allow a gunmaker to use a magazine for a rifle with a military counterpart (G-36) that a civillian can buy on the open market.
I used to think that HK was just being snobby. Although you still won't find any of their tutonic garbage in my gun cases.
They don't get it.
There should be some way to deactiveate an RFID if it is imbedded into the ploymer frame without having to dig it out. RFID's are rather sensitive to stray voltage. I wouldn't want to put it in the microwave, though.
They will get it...When sale's here are zero...Because of this ''chip''...
Someone with a scanner could walk through a crowd and pinpoint who's CC and who's not...Let them worry about pleasing the ''Itialian's...
As the article says, Chiappa is implementing this along with other Italian manufacturers at the behest of the Italian government. You can't really blame them for following the regulations in order to stay in business.
However, the manner in which Chiappa handled the overwhelmingly negative public response is appalling. As if their QC and customer service problems weren't reason enough to avoid them before...
What did I miss? Post #11 looks to me as tho' they recognize the problem and are doing something about it. Can't speak to customer service or QC, but the tracking device problem will be solved. (That said, I have no plans to add a Chiappa gun to the armory; but if I did, I'd wait until the solution was implemented.)
What does HK say about their chips?
This quote (from the article in the original post) from the US distributor for Chiappa:
"RFID Removal: For those still concerned you can simply remove the grip and remove the hot glued RFID from the frame in the grip area when (over a year from now) these begin to appear. Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson’s 1997 film, Conspiracy Theory. Well, that’s a plan too!"
The press release quoted in post #11 was a later attempt at damage control.
Edit: My mistake, MKS Distributing (who penned the 'conspiracy theory' press release) is not a part of Chiappa.
Separate names with a comma.