Chicks in combat? What's next?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mindgrinder, Jan 23, 2013.


  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Me
    Metinks dey ver Caught mit der panzers down!
     
  2. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    All other arguments aside, as a father and a Dad (there is a difference) all I can see coming out of this is more dead children.
     
    ditch witch likes this.
  3. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Me thinks, that sometime soon they are going to have to reassess the draft registration. Won't that most likely cause an uproar?
     
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I appreciate your concern, however, the truth of it is, that.....

    Soldiers will die and become injured by the very nature of their employment both in and out of the combat zone, in peace and at war. The increase in casualties will depend more on decisions made by governments to enter into peace keeping, peace making; and hostile combat operations as beligerents than by whether the female to male ratio in some MOS categories change.

    As a father and dad, I was concerned for my eldest son's welfare and safety during his East Timor deployment some ten years or so ago. I doubt I would have been any more or less concerned had it have been a daughter going instead. He was 20 something and volunteered for the billet on that tour. It was no business of mine to naysay his decision, regardless of how I felt about it. Had he have been an unwilling conscript, for some pointless unjust war being waged on behalf of some other power's economic, diplomatic and political interests, then I may have had a few things to say and do about the matter.

    A country will not last long if it is held hostage to the fears and anxieties of the parents whose children would serve in the armed forces....it is precisely the strategy of the weaker side in asymetrical warfare to exploit that weakness. Terrorism and a long drawn out conflict with a steadily increasing butcher's bill, weigh heavily against democracracies who are held accountable at the ballot box. The question is...do the democracies have the endurance and the stomach for it?
     
    NotSoSneaky likes this.
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    When I mentioned "Top Shot", I didn't bring it up because of marksmanship. It's a competition based on proving skill sets while under stress and physical strain. It's an excellent proving ground, which is why no females have ever made it very far (and won't as long as the standards are kept the same).
    I disagree. Men love women. I love women. Women serve as MP's, and even in an infantry unit, which I have been assigned previously, women are all around us --even in combat.
    I agree completely. =)
     
  6. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Yard Dart, I agree 100%, the problem is all the Liberal Training has bypassed the common sense part of most brains. It has been drilled into ourselves and our kids for so long that most believe more in some type of "Equal Rights" more than survival in war.

    That and the fact that very few are now tied to the land and working with animals on a every day basis so they do not see what nature does to aid in our survival in the past.
    Yes it all ties together in our DNA as well as the animals we raise to feed us. IN doubt? Grab a calf, have it bawl real loud and if there is a Bull in the pasture he will beat the cow to you. Laugh if you feel the need but if you want a real world lesson then come on out and we'll test what I know is fact. BTW the bull wins every time, and the Bull would be dead in a real world struggle for food or survival because I would not take a chance on my life just to prove a point.

    All the modern day training will break down in the wrong/right condition. Of course any death on the battle field will be called a battle death no matter if it caused by a bad decision due to hormones or that last stolen kiss when the Sarge was not looking.

    Like I said before, there is already enough stress in war, no one needs to wonder if the person next to them is more interested in their latest battle field love interest more than their concern for their battle group.

    Play all the Modern Day University psych games you want, DNA will win every time over "Professional Training" death will be the end result.
     
    Yard Dart likes this.
  7. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    You belittle men as well as women with your comments.
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  8. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    I speak the truth, if you can't handle it that is your problem.
     
  9. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I may have just gotten too old to remember passions that burned so strongly that I would sacrifice not only my comrade's life but my own as well as I pursued thoughts of my love interest. Huh, nope, don't think I would have forgotten that. Must be that my lust for life has always exceeded my lust for another human being.
     
  10. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    "thoughts of my love interest" That's the problem, not thoughts but reactions to deeper inputs of our Id.


    YMMV
     
  11. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    It is not belittling men or women. If a woman can shoot well and physically pull her weight thru a operation, great. There are many roles she can fill such as MP, MI and others which will be a great contribution.

    But my comments about the suitability mixing women with men in a infantry role is reality. Infantryman are a special breed of hard-headed knot-headed guys that train hard, party hard and love the ladies. Mixing women into the unit is going to cause a lot of problems internally. Some will/can pull there share and perform but my opinion, its going to be the can of gas and the match. And to me that equates to issues in readiness, esprit de corps and combat effectiveness. Bottom line, that is just more body bags to me.
     
    HK_User likes this.
  12. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    Not an issue. Women can pee standing up with Go Girl | Go Girl Female Urination Device

    I have been stationed with women for decades, and before there were commercial products, they took a transmission funnel, cut it at the correct angle and did what they needed to do.

    This whole thing is a non issue as long as they do not create a separate set of standards for women. The bottom line is it does not matter what is in your DNA as long as you can pull your weight.
     
  13. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I grew up in the military as an army brat to an career infantryman. I know all about the "special breed." And we're talking combat, not an afternoon at the Officer's Club. Soldiers in combat are more concerned with staying alive than the gams or the glands on the soldiers sitting next to them a sniper hide. Esprit de corps is not a male bastion.
     
    BTPost likes this.
  14. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    A recent documentary on board a USN Aircraft Carrier, if it could be seen right now, would tell more than all the "belittle" comments above.

    In this USN approved piece about the inner workings of a Aircraft Deck Crew the body language and the daily actions of the mixed crew left no doubt that the main drive was not USN Crewman ship.

    Then again most that see it will only think, how neat, she's sitting in his lap!

    The love boat should not be part of the USN but recent pregnancy's say other things than training are going on in the ship. Loss of trained crew and cost of just transport home will never be revealed to us, but they are both facts of the modern Mixed Military.

    Training saves live, petty squabbles that are best left "On the Beach" are now part of the OP Plans.

    I'm just glad I'm not part of that crew. No doubt the Love Birds are happy that I am not their Commander also.
     
  15. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    So, you're not speaking from first hand of your combat experience?
     
  16. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    I figure if we aint fighting to protect women and children.....well I aint fighting period.

    I wonder if a muslim who gets blown away by a female solider will still get his vergins??? Pretty sure it will piss the middle east off.
     
  17. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    No HK, I am not. I am speaking as someone who has witnessed strong and capable people of both genders denied the opportunity to pursue something at which they might have been extremely adept. They were denied because there are those who enjoy the status quo, those who have built obstacles where none really existed, those who were quick to believe that if a change didn't meet their personal litmus test, it was beyond the realm of possible success.

    It wasn't so many years ago when women were relegated to home, hearth, child-bearing and rearing. They could work like pack mules on the farm and in the fields, but would be incapable of functioning safely on the streets of Larado. Guess what, we not only survived, we thrived and the crust of the earth didn't crack and fall into the great abyss.

    I created a life, educated myself, lived and functioned independently, owned businesses, raised a family, rebuilt a house, cut hay and milked cows, have entertained and been entertained by Fortune 500 presidents as well as the local junkman. I am neither a social gallivant nor a social scientist but I am a social observer. I have traveled to every corner of the world, lived inside cultures totally foreign to my life, witnessed men and women suffer and die, some in my own arms. I have worked in male dominated industries my entire life and have earned the respect of customers and coworkers, not for my gender but for the knowledge and work ethic I brought to the job. I don't apologize for excelling and surpassing many of my male counterparts. I've earned everything I have become and everything I own because I was capable and refused to be bullied by whose who said I "couldn't." I have witnessed chest beating all my life and have refused to back down, or sit back and let the world trample over me any more than Samuel Adams was willing to allow his life, liberty and fortune to be determined by a tyrannical oppressor.

    Not every woman is suited for combat any more than every man is but there are some who will exceed the expectations of even their champions. Although we would like to share in your esprit de corps, we certainly don't need your permission to work along side of you to accomplish a common goal.
     
  18. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    Like they need a reason?
     
    CATO and chelloveck like this.
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    There already are two standards, have been for a long time. Men and women each have different physical requirements. Whether it is fair or not can be argued, but I personally do not have an issue since I am tired of arguing about it, lol

    APFT Calculator - Army Physical Fitness Test

    Choose MALE/FEMALE
    Type in any age (I used 19)
    Type in any numbers for PU and SU (I used 25)
    Type in 2 mile run time (I used 13:00)

    Keep all data the same and just switch the gender.

    Men = 100 score, Women = 170 score (both failed but you can play with the numbers and find the same type results)

    ***Or you could just look at a chart***
     
  20. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    That is basic PT. I am talking training TPOs for combat MOSs./Ratings. Although I have never liked a separate PT standard either.

    Humping the same load over the same distance. That type of thing.

    If they establish different criteria for women, then the problem is with leadership, not the women, and quite frankly if I was a woman, I would be pissed.
     
    Brokor likes this.
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