Chinese ratings agency threatens US with new debt downgrade

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by workhorse, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. workhorse

    workhorse Monkey+

    The head of China's biggest ratings agency, Dagong Global Credit Rating, is warning that it may downgrade the US's sovereign debt rating again because of Washington's failure to tackle the federal budget deficit.
    The remarks by Dagong's chairman, Guan Jianzhong, to be broadcast in an interview with al-Jazeera on Saturday morning, come at the end of another week of deep turmoil for the world economy.
    Dagong, which has maintained a pessimistic outlook on US fiscal policy, has been leading the charge to downgrade US debt over the last 12 months, lowering the US rating from AA to A+ a year ago.
    In August it downgraded US debt again, to A. Days later, Standard & Poor's followed in its wake, becoming the first western agency to downgrade US debt after the threat of a default was narrowly avoided following weeks of political squabbling in Washington over whether President Obama should be allowed to raise the US debt ceiling.
    Guan's intervention comes as another embarrassing political standoff over budget policy looms in Washington. The cross-party "supercommittee" given the job of finding ways to cut the budget deficit is reportedly deadlocked, with Republicans refusing to countenance the tax rises being suggested by Democrats. The committee is due to report by 23 November, but there are fears they could fail to reach agreement, prompting a new crisis.
    Founded in 1994 by the Chinese government and the People's Bank of China, Dagong is the only credit ratings agency in China that grades foreign sovereign debt and bonds.
    In an interview with Talk to Al-Jazeera, Guan agrees that it is almost inevitable that his agency will cut America's debt rating once again, arguing that the only solution open to the US economy is further quantitative easing.
    "The measures available to them [the US] cannot be effective so they have another way out which is to depreciate the US dollar, to print more money," he says. "And that will also make it a lot worse, this has affected their credit and it is negatively affecting their credit prospects – so that their overall ability to pay back their debt will continue to go down.
    Asked directly if he believed another ratings cut was inevitable, Guan replies: "I think so." Rest of article at

  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Yeah! I mean Boo. Or do I mean Yeah?

    Well, where are they going to put their money? In the Euro?
  3. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    One word: Gold.
    Cephus likes this.
  4. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Bloody joke this is. Threat/counter-threat. China is playing games trying to destroy the US as the reserve currency.
    VisuTrac, Sapper John, Cephus and 2 others like this.
  5. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    What I would do if given the power I would tell them fine we will no longer import your cheap junk electronic's and we will dig our own coal. Bring job's back home and put made in the USA back on lable's. My dad work 21 years underground digging coal and they are shutting more and more mines down. When ask why they can buy it from China cheaper. So let's see how well their econemy goes once they have no place to pass off low grade products. Odumba$$ has no back bone or nuzs...[sinking]
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    What's lost in all this is that the Chinese economy is failing faster than ours.
  7. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Probally because American's are spending less money on personal like to have items and more on what they need and stocking up on food supplies.
    Cephus likes this.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    That's certainly part of it. The Eurozone is in the same boat with us, so the Chinese are feeling it.
  9. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

  10. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Fortunately its not bloody yet. The only reason the US Dollar remains the dominant currency is because theres nothing to replace it. Thats why Gold and Silver are so high.
    The sad part is China is gaining more and more Freedom while we here in the US are loosing more and more Freedom.
  11. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    A conversation between two "Neighbors"

    Joe: Hey Jintao?
    Jintao: Yes my neighbor?
    Joe: If you don't stop stealing my stuff, I won't shop at your store anymore
    Jintao: If you don't shop at my store, I will tell everyone that you owe money to that you have no money.
    Joe: You wouldn't dare! If you do that, I will tell everyone that you're lending money to that your intentions are to acquire their stuff by means of their default!
    Jintao: You bastard!
    Joe: Can I borrow 10 dollars? I need something from your store..
    Jintao: Sure.. I just found this neat thing that I think you might like..
    Falcon15 likes this.
  12. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Actually, the Chinese have a bid in to the IMF to replace the USD with the Renminbi as the reserve currency. Additionally, the IMF also can kick the USD and institute SDRs (International Monetary Fund Special Drawing Rights) as a reserve currency. This is a very likely scenario, and looks like TPTB are forcing a huge devaluation of the dollar either on purpose, or speeding up an inevitable process. If the IMF drops the USD as reserve currency, they are one step closer to a global currency. With all major currencies under pressure from inflation and steadily increasing debt/GDP ratios, when the fiats implode, it opens doors for replacement with a standardized currency. This, my friend, is not good.

    The only thing keeping the USD in a reserve currency status is the fact that the world must buy oil from OPEC using USD. That is partly why it is believed that Gaddafi was assassinated. He was in the process of instituting 2 programs. One program created a strong Libyan currency, based on gold. Another program being worked on was one where Libyan oil would be sold for gold. That would have been a serious blow to the USD monopoly on oil purchases. It is still very, very possible that the new regimes being put into place in the MENA region will institute, through their position as OPEC members, a program eliminating the USD as the petroleum purchasing "currency". If OPEC goes to gold/Renminbi/SDRs (or anything else), then the dollar is done for, internationally and the excesses of the US catch up with her. That is but one scenario. This is a very convoluted web, and China has their fingers on a majority of the strands. The BRICs countries (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) are already starting to bring pressure to bear on exporting countries, using their collective economic power.

    So, yes, it is already bloody.
    larryinalabama likes this.
  13. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    High time to force China to pay on the sovereign bonds that they used to rip off the citizens of every other nation.
  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    High time to levy import duties and tariffs on Chinese goods. The same needs to apply to our European and Japanese friends.
    STANGF150, Sapper John and Falcon15 like this.
  15. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    It's OK, it looks like obummer et al are pissing off the Canadians with the tar sands oil pipeline delay.

    The could export to Asia. Sweet, we are pissing off our largest trading partner in North Amerika.

    Delay is a Pyrrhic victory for U.S. oilsands opponents

    Wonder if China is willing to pay in gold or does Canada accept RMB?
    Sapper John and Falcon15 like this.
  16. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    And when we have sufficiently pissed them off, they will dump every penny of US bonds, killing us with hyperinflation (the Fed would have to print trillions of USD to buy the outstanding debt, failure to do so would also destroy the US Economy, catch 22). No, Obummer is doing a fine job ticking them off just being, well Obummer. This is all just a grand race to fiat currency implosion. Question is, who will win the race to the bottom. It is time to place your bet on the horses at the glue factory. Last one to get made into glue is the fastest.
  17. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Falcoln Im quite sure your way ahead of me in current events and monitary policies.
    The IMF is basically a US tax payer complete robery, correct me if IM wrong.
    The Chinese have alaways devaluated their own cureency to promote cheap goods again correct me if IM wrong. I visited China 7 years ago an in Mainland Chinas government stores you could buy stuff with US dollars and recieve change in US dollars. In Hong Kong you cant.
    Its very the the United Nations anothe night mare for the US tax payer woul like to see a global currency, however its lookin like united Eroupe may not keep the Euro, again I may be wrong.
    It is also my understanding that OPEC no longer required payment in US dollars thus giving us 4$ per gallon gas, that I may be wrong on.
    It is defenately true that China is putting huge preshure on the worlds energy.
    If Quadafy and the likes blood is shed Im alll for it.
    Dont know if anyone sutdies Bible Propercy, but a whole lot of stuff is coming to pass on a rapid pace. So keep on prepping.
  18. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    The oil will be piped here or to a port.

    And I thought Carter was bad.
  19. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Yes, and no. The IMF is the banking equivalent of the United Nations. Formed at roughly the same time as the UN, there are 182 member nations that comprise the IMF. The IMF is charged with overseeing the international monetary system to ensure exchange rate stability and encouraging members to eliminate exchange restrictions that hinder trade.

    The United States is a member nation. We have 1.4 Billion plus (tax payer dollars) invested in the IMF that we can call upon as SDR's. Our IMF representative (called a Governor) is currently Timothy Giethner. The alternative Governor is Ben Shalom Bernake. See a pattern forming here?

    Again, yes and no. China does devalue it's currency to a point. What actually is happening is China is buying up Treasury Bonds from the United States and other countries. What this does is reduce the amount of money their country has, thereby "increasing" the wealth of the other countries and "decreasing" the wealth of their country. HOWEVER, huge caveat here, if China sells off the bonds in their possession, even if it is before the maturity date, the Treasury would have to come up with literally trillions of dollars. Money they do not have. So, the Federal Reserve Bank would end up becoming the buyer of first resort, snapping up the trillions in bonds. This money has to be printed and given to China. Once China dumps, the remaining Asian nations and a majority of the rest of the world would dump their bonds. Chain reaction. Our USD would be worthless in literally hours. OPEC and the IMF would have their hand forced. The world reserve currency would have to be replaced and an emergency meeting of OPEC would change the sale currency for oil within hours. Can you say Zimbabwe?

    The prevalent theories out there argue that the UN and many other agencies are nothing more than faces of the NWO, whos ultimate goal is world domination, and complete control. Part of that control mechanism is a single global electronic currency.
    You are wrong. OPEC only accepts USD for oil. Period. Gaddafi was going to break that camel's back with a golden straw. The reason for $4.00 a gallon gasoline is an artifact of several factors from cost of crude oil, all the way to transportation costs of getting the fuel from refinery to gas station.
    Not just energy. Food, raw materials, you name it.
    While Gaddafi was not an angel and supported terrorists, neither you, nor I should support the assassination of the head of ANY country. That in and of itself is an act of terrorism, and WE were directly involved. If the goal of this INEPT and BUMBLING Administration was to light off a potential global nuclear war, Obottom pushed the button. Once Iran gets their technology squared away and because we were directly involved with the terroristic attack and assassination of a head of state, we painted a HUGE bulls eye for the first medium range Iraninan nuke, launched from a cargo ship 200 miles off the US coast.

    None shall know the time of His coming. We can only guess and prepare.
    Sapper John and larryinalabama like this.
  20. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Falcon you are a very smart man.

    China has become as dependent on the US as we have become dependent on the them. As economic Freedom in China incresese and the US economic Freedom decreases China will eventually be the "KING" of the world as we are now.
    Sure they can sell off US treasury notes or borrowed money, as they have already started, thats why Gold has gotton so high. But our failure is basically their failure, as their monitary system has become more and more private investors.

    As far as Gadaffi goes Im glad that SOB is dead assanted his blood on national and world wide TV. Im glad if the US was directly involved even though we werent, I wish Regan would have sent him to hell. As far as Iran they could care less about Gadaffi, they will take over Libia Iraq and most of the Middleast as soon as we pull out of Iraq, and you are right if given a chance they will attack the shores of the United States, but that has nothing to do with gadaffi.
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