Christianity = Collaboration

http://brr.wallbuilders.com/

 

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in Government/Police State/clergy_response_teams.htm

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987

http://www.newswithviews.com/Gregory/williams100.htm

26,000 pastors recruited so far.

 

TwoCrows.....you are preaching a message to the converted.......go save the lost.
This is not the place to forward this message, while I applaud your willingness to put the message out there, do you not think it would be better served to tell those who are at risk of falling victim to this clergy response?
I do not think you will find many gullible or weak enough in their faith where you are currently proclaiming your message

to continue to do so makes you appear a troll

Bless you Brother to find the proper audience, it is noble of you to want to warn the sheep there is a wolf amongst them

 

Would it not be better received coming from fellow Christians ?

I apologize for making it seem to be an attack, the thought of standing alone in what would then be a hopeless suicidal battle pushes me.

When I started this thread I did not know how widespread this was, even though I described New Orleans as a test case.
It seemed to me that my concerns were brushed aside, meanwhile the opposition gained ground.

 

is now,
right this minute....
with the thought of a suicidal stand reverberating within you......
a good time to talk about salvation?
because, if it is a good time......
I would tell you that no earthly struggle will mean a hill of beans compared to the eternity of salvation/damnation
what goes on here is not the end, merely the beginning
what happens here on this earth, in these bodies we so reverently wish to hold on to...is only the precursor of what is to come

I apologize for being preachy ( which is as apologist as I get) but ..really Brother, will you join me in heaven??
Jesus can be the only answer
the only way through a dark and narrow gate, though the path be fraught with danger, peril and treachery
though the friends you once knew would disown you and find you contemptible
He is the way, the truth, and the life

While 3 may have hung on the hill at Golgotha that day, you and I both know, in our heart of hearts, that he was the only one to arise from the dead

you and I both know, that to stand before the high KING of Heaven, we must have an advocate, someone who will stand in the Gap
lest we face the judgement and wrath that is due us


will you not then embrace this savior??

or will you brush my concerns aside??

Matthew 24:9
9 ‘Then they will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. 10Then many will fall away,* and they will betray one another and hate one another.11And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold.13But anyone who endures to the end will be saved. 14And this good news* of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world, as a testimony to all the nations; and then the end will come.


I hear what you say...will you also hear me??

 

This quote and others (often contradictory) have often been used to justify compliance, or collaboration, or cooperation, or acquiescence, or resistance to temporal government authority by Christians and Christian institutional organisations. I don't think that a blanket statement can be made on the matter merely by quote mining selective bits of the bible as justification for the argument that Christianity = collaboration. As to whether Christianity = collaboration, it is less a matter of what the Bible says that Christians ought do (and by extension, what Christianity ought do) in its relationship with temporal government, but what Christians actually do, and what Christian Institutions actually do. Although some general trends may be discerned, the question needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

As individuals, Christians have acted, in relation to the temporal power (secular or religious) according to their conscience, their commitment to the sectarian doctrines and affiliations that they are aligned with, their degree of obedience to the dictates and preferences of the Church / Institutional faith that they are members of, and not least, what they perceive to be in their best interests for day to day worldly survival. Many individuals may go with the flow of the rest of the flock and institutional church and collaborate with repressive authoritarian regimes (absolute monarchs and fascist dictatorships)...and some will not. Christians may collaborate with the temporal government to persecute members of competing faiths or even factions within their own faith, and yet also oppose strenuously the same government if their own faith's privileges, power, and interests are threatened or harmed.

Christian institutions have often supported repressive temporal governments even if at the expense of their follower peons who occupy the lowest strata of society. Church prelates have, over the centuries generally tended to align themselves and collaborate with the ruling classes (Monarch and aristocracy), and latterly in the case of democracies, with the more conservative end of the political spectrum.

As to Romans 13:1-5? I think that it merely represents some realpolitik on the part of the founding fathers of Christianity. To be used to keep the faithful peons from spoiling a good power sharing relationship with the temporal government of the day. Unless the church itself is threatened by the temporal power, it would not do well to bite the hand that gives preferment to one's own religion or sectarian faction over others. If the temporal government does attack the State religion, or indeed a minority religion, then all bets are off and some suitable alternative biblical reference can be quote mined and co-opted to stir the faithful into insurrection against the evil, infidel temporal government!

 

So, the authority that governs us is the Constitution. I like that. Then the problems we face in this country are caused by some of our hired hands hands acting up and disobeying the lawful authority.

 

Yeah, our elected employees. A lot of them seem to misunderstand the order of things.