Christians don't have halos and wings; and Atheists don't have horns and tails - Who Knew?

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by chelloveck, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Shining the light on a truthier truth!

    tulianr likes this.
  3. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Playing with fire will get you burned. There are reasons for the Biblical warnings not to fellowship with the ungodly. Such activity costs Israel greatly--and still is.
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Shining the light on a truthier truth!

    Oh man...I don't see any scorch marks on either side of the net....

    As to Biblical's more a matter of maintaining the illusion of exclusivity of truth, and controlling the in-group's perceptions of out-group beliefs. Some theists prefer to tarbrush atheists and secular humanists as Satan loving, Jesus hating, demon possessed deviates, without even knowing anything about atheists and their beliefs, other than what the 'sacred' scriptures purportedly say and what their rabbis, priests, imams, pastors and vicars tell them. Perhaps folks on both sides of the net should be afforded the opportunity of getting to know each other better and allowing them to make their own minds up.
  5. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Alright, not to offer any opinions or judgement, I believe it is important to spell this out, mostly for the "Onward Christian Soldiers". Follow me here, because , like it or not, it's like spilling paint; it's gonna get on everything and there is no other option.
    We have been fighting a declared war all over the globe on "Terrorism". This is a tactic, a tool; not a Country with borders or a standing Army. It is a concept that can be loosely defined to allow anyone that fits the definition-de-jour to be killed with impunity by any of our military or secret police agencies that have sprang up, armed to the teeth, to defend us under the much beloved "Patriot Act". We attack the enemy's tactic, the"Tool" they use, just like we blame guns instead of killers for heinous crimes. Everybody sees this, but nobody asks "Why"?
    Everybody recognizes that the real enemy is Muslim religious fanatics. We know that all the bombings and terror incidents are committed almost entirely by Muslim male "Jihadist", yet rather than declaring a war we can win, we continue to only attack their tactics, rather than picking a real, standing, physical enemy and declaring a war we can actually win; or can we? Do not be mistaken, we will eventually declare a war on them, but we cannot do that yet...there is a single obstacle that must be destroyed first.
    We are being gradually indoctrinated to believe that Muslims are evil. We are led to believe that they are standing in line to commit suicide to get 72 virgins in paradise by killing infidels. This is sort of true, only skewed in a direction that the puppet-masters want us to believe so that we'll fight, when the time comes.
    What is a "Jihad"? It is a "Holy War". Suicide is a sin in the Muslim faith. When they are killed fighting the enemies of Allah, they are promised life in the "Here-after, Paradise, Heaven", what-ever you want to call it. Those virgins? Jewish propaganda, originally, taken from an allegory told by Mohammad that the least soul in Paradise would have 80,000 servants and 72 wives...sort of like our Christian concept of "Streets paved with Gold", it has no value...Oh, they believe in the final reward, but so does every Christian. Who is Allah? Allah is God. The exact same God mentioned in the Old Testament, Jehovah. Like it or not, the Old Testament is a sacred, holy book in the Muslim Faith and most of their Doctrine is derived directly from it. Christ is mentioned in the Koran more times than is Mohammad. Christ was considered a lesser Prophet than Mohammad, he was sent to the Jews and Mohammad was sent for them. Not too much of a stretch; Christ only became a generic Prophet after the Jews crucified him. We condemn their Laws. It is Barbaric to keep woman subjugated, to cut off the hand of a thief, to stone someone to death for blasphemy; our system is so much more civilized, we have blue parking spaces, women in positions of political power, and the electric chair or gas-chamber. That the Muslims have identified us as the biggest threat to their religion defines us as their enemy and many of them will fight their enemy by what ever means they can and unfortunately, when fighting such a large overwhelming enemy, bombs produce the most bang for their buck; it is simply a force multiplier and one of the few available to them. We don't like their tactics, but it is one of the few available to them and as the "Enemy", we don't get a vote in it.
    Now back to the War against is the crux; If we declare war on a religion, a religion that has a slightly different interpretation of the same God and Bible that many of our own hold sacred, how is that different than Baptists fighting Jews or Catholics, or Pentecostals, or Methodists? With this in mind, the attack on religious freedom here in America suddenly starts to make sense. Religion is subjugated by every legal means and slowly, any that speak out, those that rally and protest in the name of their religion, all start wearing the "Fanatic" label. And we'll fight the Muslims with savagery and vigor. We'll stomp them into the ground and some will realize, wait a minute...why is there a law against assembly for prayer? Why are there National Guard here to prevent us from protesting abortion? Why is Homeland Security requiring the membership of our Church?
    I know this a a little long-winded and simplistic, but Christianity will be the collateral damage of any war declared against religion; any religion.
  6. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    "Simplistic"--lol. Now what did you say w/o rambling all over the page?
    Chel, or one could simply read the Bible for personal knowledge and make their own decision w/o listening to "wise" and enlightened professors berate what they know little of themselves. Then on could look at historical facts and see what allowing differing views into a culture can do to it. Not saying to become "isolationist" minded but be informed enough to make ones own decisions for their best interest.
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  7. RightHand

    RightHand Old Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    Seig Heil 06?
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  8. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Well, to put it into simpler words, as an Agnostic, I shouldn't care unless bombed, but as an Atheist, every threat imposed by ANY religion opens me for collateral casualty and thereby makes any religious proponent a potential threat and enemy. As a devout Christian, I can't really recommend our track-record. Therefore, I offer no opinion or judgement, just pointing out what is inevitable if we should decide to openly declare war on Islam.
    On the other hand, when we do openly declare war on Islam, it will only be after Christianity has been completely subdued.
  9. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Excellent posts Seacowboys. Discrimination against one religion is discrimination against all religion. No one should be able to dictate another person's beliefs; and while wrong actions can and should be condemned, condemning a set of beliefs is another matter entirely. For me, truth is to be found in an open and active mind, not in a set of sacred texts or in the pontifications of another. Anything or anyone, religious or secular, that tells me not to think for myself is a bad thing in my world.
  10. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    What signifies 'collateral damage' in relation to a religion? For that matter, what would destroy or subdue a religion?
    Since religions are concepts and a series of ideas or beliefs, they really cannot be destroyed like an organic being. Sure, we have seen mass genocide, campaigns of conquest and holy wars --and not one has ever rid the world of an entire religion. Even Ancient Egyptian mythology and worship continues to this day, and it may not be widely known, but all one needs to do is take a look at secret societies and the occult to see it in full swing. Now, to those who are born and bred to be mirror images of their parents, this is all "evil" and the terrible "Satan" will devour them for turning from God. In reality, there's still much to be understood about our species. One thing is for certain, 'PEOPLE' are absolutely expendable, and are often used to achieve an end. Even though 'people' ARE religion, because 'people' hold the thoughts and ideas of a religion, there are always more to replace the ones that are killed and lost. In this way, the tool of controlling the minds of 'people' is everlasting...

    Christianity will not need to be subdued or destroyed. To believe there is actually a struggle at all is to accept the great lie and fall victim to the illusion. The powers that be have set the stage well enough to illicit fighting from both sides, and all that was needed was a catalyst (9-11-2001). Who cares how many people die? Let the two major figures in religion bash it out for a hundred years, let them murder each others children for so long they become baseless animals and beg to be slaughtered in every street. Let the whole world look upon them with disgust and declare their religious hatred to be the equal to a hound with rabies. And let there finally be a time when we can see the world for what it is and welcome the age of reason.
    chelloveck likes this.
  11. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Pure and simply, Brokor; you are wrong and only arguing semantics. Religion is being subdued by PC, by law, by social standard, and if and when we do declare war on Islam, laws will be passed that prevent anyone from speaking of their religious beliefs other than in the abstract. Those that refuse to accept the status-quo will be labeled as zealots, fanatics, and the rest of us will throw stones at them.
    Minuteman and RightHand like this.
  12. RightHand

    RightHand Old Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    Exactly what has happened with gun control. Its diversion and control.

    Look at the penalties being imposed by schools at the mere mention or connotation of a firearm. When a 1st grader is suspended from school for eating a cookie in the shape of a gun, we are doomed unless we fight to educate the followers of the world that the logic being foisted on them will one day be used against them in ways they cannot even imagine.

    "First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.
    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me."
    Yard Dart, Motomom34 and tulianr like this.
  13. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey++

    Wow. Nothing like an ad hominem attack. I would have expected a bit more from a mod/founding member. Guess not.
  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Sorry, I do not see the very definition of religion to be simple semantics. However, I do recognize your position.
    Absolutely true to an extent; the "reality" factor of what purpose this all serves is perhaps the foundation for our argument. The question I pose is, where is this all going? I do not only see the effects or symptoms, I can see the inevitable (to me) conclusion. Religion has long been cultivated and utilized as a tool for control, and there is no force great enough that we have seen thus far to eradicate it. Even in Communist countries, which inevitably fail, will see a rise and eventual return to religious culture. Maybe it is best if I state that I see what is happening as merely a phase or transition --not an end, but a beginning.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  15. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    many will see that point as being the herald of the Apocalypse and the consequences will still be another bloody war with God on our side being touted by all combatants. My point is that right, wrong, or in-between, the collateral damage will be to make enemies of all religion. No-one can argue that some good is not gleamed from Churches and their charitable works, nor from the solace found by many that otherwise could not come to terms with their guilt, or transgressions. No informed person can declare Islam any more biased than Christianity, albeit having some followers devout enough to sacrifice their lives for what they believe, something we might admire were the subject the defense of our Freedom rather than the defense of a Religion that we don't identify with. In the USA, we have made God a Democracy and ok-ed the killing of deviants; take Waco, for example.
    "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes"
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  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I wonder, if humankind will ever reach a point where they do good deeds out of the kindness of their hearts, and seek no illusions to fill the void of a questioned existence?
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  17. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    And before Guttenberg there was the monastery with a new young monk. His first task was to make hand copies of various church documents. As he progressed, he wondered about the accuracy of those documents serving as his source material. As he investigated he found they were copies of copies of copies etc. He brought to the head monk's attention that if an earlier copy contain a hand written mistake then they were perpetuating it. Their solution was to compare a set of copies to the originals keep safe in the dungeon vaults, make any corrections and then use only those verified copies as the sources. After 4 days, the other monks heard the two weeping down in the vaults. They rushed down and asked, "Brothers, what is the cause of your sadness and weeping.". The head monk sobs, "The word was celebRate!"

    Probably the only certain thing in all this is most religions employ a book or collection of books that were written by humans who claim that the messages are from God or a leader who claims to be God's messenger.

    I may well be wrong but the difficulties seem to arise when people regard their favored book or collection of books as not possibly being anything but direct from God and more importantly, only their interpretation of the manuscripts is the true and correct understanding.

    I personally tend (with lots of exceptions both ways) to most admire, trust and like those who generally follow one of the books (or collection of books) but aren't so arrogant as to discount every single possibility that they could be wrong about it's origins or more importantly the interpretation of the messages contained therein.

    Vowed to be monogamous, but not celibate (you catch that dear?)
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  18. chelloveck

    chelloveck Shining the light on a truthier truth!

    I'm surprised at the directions this thread has taken...The thread title was the suggestion that we are more than the stereotypes that we tend to apply to one other, and the opening post was a wry recognition of the fact that two seemingly disparate groups of people could come together and work towards a common cause, showing each other the dignity and respect of the humanity that each group shares in common.

    It is a measure of the tolerance in a civil society that values the practical application of freedom of belief that both Christians and Atheists could be on the same would have been interesting to mix the two groups into two 50% Christian and 50% Atheist teams....that would have been an interesting exercise. :D

    The proceeds of the match were donated to a charity, and both sides of the court can be applauded for their efforts.
    tulianr likes this.
  19. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

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  20. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    If I were really really wise, I'd say something like this
    But I'm not so I'll just go away.
  21. Mechwolf

    Mechwolf Monkey+

    Isn't it stated in the bible" He who hath no sin cast the first stone?" While I was raised Catholic and do not attend church regularly I believe in the teachings of Christ but I would never tell some one that If you create fellowship with non believers your going to hell. Isn't that just a little judgmental and against Christian values? If your the type of Christian that judges others for not having the same belief system as you then you are part of the problem. The Bible was written by men so inherently it is filled with flaws. Besides how would early Christians convert people to the Christian faith without having fellowship with non believers. This is why organized religion chaps my hide..... the hypocrisy is overwhelming.
    Yard Dart, Motomom34, Airtime and 2 others like this.


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