My sentiments exactly! Until he proves himself to be a douchebag to me personally, I'll consider him a fellow gun enthusiast and colleague.
don't quote me on this but if i remember correctly what i read was not the atf that got him but the state AG, apparently some guy ordered a couple of units and never received them. This guy had letters and all and finally bent the ear of the state AG to investigate, when it was checked out mutiple people had the same issue., apparently ciener was arrogant enough to post on his website if you contact him about your order he would personally place your order at the bottom of the list of when it will ever get shipped. that was supposedly the reason for the raid to seize all records of unshipped orders. You have to take it with a grain of salt all this was in the paper so you know how that goes but the records were supposed to show that ciener had dozens of orders going back years that he had not filled but he was shipping product almost daily.
So pissed at Ciener Inc. - Shooters Forum hes a douche bag fame and money went to his head. I have read many people haven't received anything from him in a long time.
A quick look around his website would be enough for me to look elsewhere. Douchebaggery abounds: Warrenty service << Too Lazy to post up the same info? Hoping someone lost the card?? Fax inquiry << Umm not exactly selling stuff at bargain prices.. HIRE SOMEONE to handle calls.
http://news.brevardtimes.com/2012/02/charges-against-cape-canaveral-gun.html Tuesday, February 7, 2012 Charges Against Cape Canaveral Gun Conversion Maker Dropped CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- The Brevard County State Attorney's Office has dropped a felony charge this week against gun conversion manufacturer Jonathan A. Ciener. The Brevard County Sheriff's Office raided Jonathan Arthur Ciener, Inc. located at 8700 Commerce Street in Cape Canaveral last November and charged Ciener with one count of scheme to defraud in an amount less than $20,000. (Image above) Jonathan Arthur Ciener, Inc., is a company that sells gun conversion kits nationwide and advertises its kits on Jonathan Arthur Ciener, Inc. Gun Conversions. Ciener's attorney, Greg Eisenmenger of the Viera law firm Eisenmenger, Berry & Peters, P.A., told Brevard Times that the criminal charge was brought against Ciener after a few, but very vocal customers, had complained to law enforcement about not receiving merchandise after payment. Eisenmenger said that his client was able to provide records to the State Attorney's office which demonstrated that thousands of orders had been filled and that the lengthy back orders represented less than 1 % of all orders. Eisenmenger added that the money for the back orders was always kept in a separate account and not used for operating expenses while Ciener continued to process and ship a unique product that is in high demand. The full text of the arrest warrant and additional photos can be found in November's article.
I stand on my comment that I have done business with John Ciener for many years and he has always delivered his product. His product is the ONLY .22 conversion kit that I have found that will reliably cycle an M16 on rock and roll. He is often back-ordered for several months but he says this on his website and will tell you this if you call him; he does take calls from customers, potential customers, and even those that just want to bitch. I will continue to do business with him and it is my opinion that anyone that would buy into the crucifixion recently staged with no evidence other than what they read in the charges, are total dumbasses and a significant part of what is wrong with this country.
One in my 1911 and one in my ar 15. I wasn't upset about any part of my business with Ciener.Should I need another unit I won't hesitate to call him.
Looks to this reader that this Gentleman, runs his business on his time, and not his customers time. He seems to be very, up front, about his business practices and if any potential customers want to "Bitch and moan" about how he runs his business, he feels they can go somewhere else, with their business. His attitude is "Don't let the Door, Hit you in the Ass, on the way out. and, If you don't like what I do, LEAVE, and don't come Back." These are perfectly acceptable business practices, if you really do not care about growing your business, and your services, are so in demand, that you have way more work than you can do. This seems to be his Business Model, and it works for him, and that is all that needs to be said, about it. He proved that the backordered Order Money was kept in an Escrow type account, and if the party wanted a Refund and to Cancel the Order, that was fine with him. I suspect the DA is feeling like he got some bad information, from the complainants, and when the His Attorney presented the TRUE Facts, the DA dropped the whole case, like a Hot Potato, to get out from under it. ...... YMMV....
His attitude and 'business practices' may be 'legal', but it's no way to ensure repeat business. Upon reading how many have had troubles with him, I exercise MY free choice to NOT do business with him.
