Civil Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Motomom34, Sep 22, 2017.


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  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Civil Discussion, sometimes I wonder if it is dead. It is mentioned in our Code of Conduct, "We don’t mind if you disagree with another member of the board, we just ask that you keep it civil."

    So I looked up the definition of civil-
    adequate in courtesy and politeness :mannerly

    Yes, I had a conversion recently where I was left just nodding my head and making appropriate, Oh really, I didn't know type statements but that was not really what I was thinking. I want to talk truths but it seems many people now discuss in a reactionary manner or they discuss what they saw on TV without researching to see if what they saw was the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The conversation that I had, started out with them saying, "I know you are on the opposite side but....." All I know is that it was a rant that made no logical sense. Sometimes I feel by being polite and courteous, I come away feeling unheard.

    It seems the silent majority practices civil discussion and civil behavior but that makes them silent which may not always be a good thing. Is it an issue? Probably not but it really weighs on me that I often walk away unheard, I walk away silent because having a civil discussion is about impossible when the person you are talking to is not being civil themselves. I may have to start using the phrases- "I hear you and understand but.... " I am unsure if even that would work.
     
  2. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Voices get loud when loud voices are present. Conversations turn in strange places, tangents become the topic in question, but words left unspoken are words that can never be heard. It is weighing in that steers conversation, occasionally repeatedly weighing in at junctures of a tangent, to draw the conversation back on track.

    I would also guess that a lot also hinges on your definition of polite? Not threatening to burn down your house and cussing you like a sailor would be considered polite by many, and yet other people simply leave the moment an elevation in pitch occurs, even if it is a positive adjustment of excitement instead of a foreboding of anger (all of this being from personal IRL experience, I am putting no words in anyones mouth here).

    Something I often wonder about on here is how many people are childishly using the Block option...I rarely get responded to these days, and I am never certain if it is because I am being polite, I am being silly, or if everyone is running around acting like I am not part of the site? I bring the Block option up, because it is very hard to join in on a conversation where everyones has essentially locked you out of the house the discussion is taking place in.
     
  3. Imasham

    Imasham Monkey

    When people are being loud and uncivil they cannot hear your quiet responses. And when someone begins a sentence with "I know you are on the opposite side but....." that is code for they want to simply rant. For people like that I really enjoy agreeing with them on everything I can. It really pisses them off when somebody responds politely to them.

    As for blocking...I use it. I am under no obligation to have to listen to every opinion or be everyone's friend so when somebody has crossed my personal line in the sand they get blocked. That's too bad for me because they could have valuable insight into other issues. But at the same time I am not willing to listen to loads of crap waiting for the one nugget of gold.
     
  4. DKR

    DKR Interesting ideas, interesting stories

    In America, people have the Right to their own opinion. They also have the Right to publicly express that opinion.

    People do not have a Right to their own 'facts" And this is where most of the current US vs Them 'conversations' fall apart. It has been my experience that the louder the voice (spittle flecked type) is the side (person) who has little (or nothing) in the way of fact and a lot in the way of 'opinion'.

    What to do? Someone is spouting off a list of their 'facts" - and you are too polite to tell them to blow it out their barracks bag -

    Try these-
    Really, I've not heard that?
    Interesting, where did you hear (or read) these facts?
    (lift hand up to waist level) I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way. Excuse me. (walk away)

    People may have the Right to their own opinion, they do not have a 'right' to inflict that opinion on others.
     
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  5. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Yes they do. Often before one has had a chance to think and weigh in, it seems like an opportunity has passed on by. You bring up some good points. Tangents are just that so it is not a discussion but a time when someone just wants to spew and basically say what they want to hear. Is it worth responding to a tangent, no because that person has indicated they are not open for civil discussion. I am beginning to think that civil discussion is an art form because to be able to get ones point across when discussing a passionate subject, one has to be very careful with their words.

    I have only placed one member on ignore. I will admit that I have ignored responding to some because I felt it would be fuel to the fire but otherwise I read and gather tidbits of info to mull over and gain knowledge.
     
  6. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    *yawn*
    CoC phonetically is *cock*.
    #offensive.
    Delete the code of conduct....
    Unban Kellory.
     
  7. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Those are established guidelines. If you delete all guidelines then things would run amok and I am not sure if we would be having civil discussions. You know that discussion and winning and arguments is an art form. You know that debating is something that takes practice and often becomes volatile, so how does one keep things civil?
     
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  8. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @Motomom34 If I may offer a bit of advice...never use the 'Oh really, I didn't know' type statements. By doing so, you are legitimizing and adding weight to their skewed version of the facts because you are admitting they know something you don't. Instead cut it off at the chase, "I don't see it like that" or "this is how I read it" or "no, no, no...I read about it also and that is not what I read." Being polite does not mean you have to stand there and be lied to. I never do and will interrupt in a heartbeat with information that I know is correct or valid.

    Also, I think many times it perfectly appropriate to interrupt even a personal conversation for the greater good. I cannot tell you how many times I did this here in Northern Idaho during the Presidential Election race. Everywhere people were trying to decide if they would vote for Trump even though they really didn't care for him that much (to include myself). But, I knew that we only had two choices and sometimes one is required to chose the lesser of two evils and by not voting for Trump one was indeed voting for Hillary. So, I would tell them that, "There might not be someone you want to vote for but there is always someone you want to vote against", think Heinlein said that...
     
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  9. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    It much depends upon how that opinion is expressed. If it is contrary to the CoC, then, that is unacceptable, and ought be sanctioned. Outside of that, if the opinion is something that offends oneself, or grinds one's gears, the options are to ignore the opinion; ignore the person expressing it; express a counter opinion; or busy oneself with something more interesting and worthwhile on this site or elsewhere on the interwebs.

    The following link refers to spoken rhetoric, but elements of the article are relevant to online discussions.

    Classical Rhetoric 101: The Five Canons of Rhetoric - Invention | The Art of Manliness
     
  10. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Folks, if I ever fit in the category brought up in the OP, just bring it to my attention. I won't take it personally, rather I will reflect a bit before deciding you are a pigheaded buffoon and dismissing it (just kidding). Personally I like losing an argument because it means one more grain of ignorance has left me. Any day you learn something is a good day.
     
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  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

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  12. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Everyone has freedom of speech even if they don't have the ability to use it. Opinions are like @ss*oles everyone has one.
    Politics have degraded us all to tribal warfare. To be fair I can only speak bad English and Profanity so take it for what it's worth .... yep about that much
     
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  13. DKR

    DKR Interesting ideas, interesting stories

    In my paast life, I've been fortunate to have worked with US Marines. I can speak Profanity with some fluency. A second language is good to have as a skill, especially in the military.
     
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  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    civil discussion is anyone's to be had by discussing things civilly; I'm sure that women can handle rhetoric, even if few women got the opportunity to indulge in it, back in the day when the conventions were developed by the early philosophers.

    I Googled the womanly art of rhetoric, but all the hits were concentrated on breast feeding....I guess the way females shut their male interlocutors up is to.....[peep]
     
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  15. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    If you do NOT like, or plan to ignore the Site's Code off Conduct, you can LEAVE, at any time, you desire... It is the minimum Standard of Conduct allowed on this Site... and is NOT Negotiable.....
     
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  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Recognizing full well that you've posed a rhetorical question, it nonetheless has an answer. The answer is "self discipline". Among the facets of self discipline is knowing when to exit the debate. (To all who see these presents, greetings. If the shoe fits -)

    ("
    a rhetorical question is a question that one may ask without expecting an answer. The question might be one that does not have an answer. It might also be one that has an obvious answer but you have asked the question to make a point, to persuade or for literary effect.")
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  17. Bishop

    Bishop Monkey+++


    I have talks like this all the time with inmates they are right I am wrong because they get loud and talk a bunch of bull it makes them right they then tell me to write them up and my come back is why would I waste my time writing a report that will give you time off and what you want I will just keep you here doing a job you don't like for some one you hate sounds like a plan to me
     
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  18. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Bait.
    bāt/
    verb
    gerund or present participle: baiting
    1
    .
    deliberately annoy or taunt (someone).
    "the other boys reveled in baiting him about his love of literature"
    synonyms: taunt, tease, goad, pick on, torment, persecute, plague, harry, bother, harass, hound;
     
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  19. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    I try to be polite, in online and face-to-face discussion, but I don't tolerate certain things either. If verbally attacked, I do tend to get snarky. I absolutely use the "ignore" feature the great web masters gave us. I have a few hard and fast rules, the breaking of which will get the offender dropped in "the pit" immediately. I simply refuse to suffer the headaches of trying to translate gibberish into English. Fortunately, most folks here did pass Third Grade English.
    I don't tolerate boirish and trollish behavior either. No time at my age for such nonsense.
    I enjoy a good political or adult discussion, which can be done without theatrics and verbal fireworks.
    One thing that will kill a forum site for me are those that overmoderate to the point of treating the members like children. On the otherhand, lack of responsible moderation kills it too, as it devolves into illiterate anarchy.
    Adults can discuss important topics without getting nasty.
     
  20. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    The problem with "civil discourse" is, both side need to want to be civil.

    In my experience the less power someone has in real life, the more insecure they are. The more insecure they are, the more they want to throw their weight around, when they can, just to prove they are "powerful" and not the worthless loser that they know themselves to be. When the loser throws their weight around, and attacks others just because they can, to prove they are "important", or "powerful", or whatever, it generally means hatefulness and resenting any other point of view that they know is right and they can not admit is right.

    This hatred and resentment is because they know their point of view is not defensible. They can not defend their point of view, so the only way to keep from admitting to being a worthless loser is to attack any person, or view, that proves them wrong. Because they already know they are wrong, but they just can't admit it. To admit it means they would have to face up to being a loser.

    It makes a vicious circle. The more they are wrong, the more they attack any one or thing that exposes them as fools. The more they are exposed as fools and idiots by attacking, the more they attack. All because they are insecure little children who can not admit they are wrong. Sad.
     
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