Class III weapons-question

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by dragonfly, Apr 2, 2010.


  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I recently was asked about the purchasing of a class III weapon, a fully auto AK-47. I know about the requirements to purchase from any person or vendor....
    Now for the hard part:
    The "owner" was fully licensed and all that, but he has died, and now the son has the weapon.
    The son is trying to sell the weapon, and I expect there to be some problems in that...besides, he only wants $150.00 and the serial numbers were verified, it was registered to his father as a class III ( precautionary check!).
    I do not want to buy it, as I have no need for this AK.
    Semi yes, full auto, no.
    What does the son have to do to get legal posession of that weapon?
    I mean, if he has no class III permit, and is in posession...YIKES!!!
    But now, he is in posession, and it's all a mess to me!
    As I understand it, the weapon has to be surrendered to the BATFE?
    Hmmmmmm...
    Let's see, if you try to send it to them, you are in trouble, if you have it you are in trouble, you can't legally sell it....
    Man what a nightmare!
     
  2. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    He needs to call the ATF.
     
  3. PapaSasquatch

    PapaSasquatch Monkey++

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    I would be inclined to say there's no "constructive" law for NFA parts but I think there is specific restrictions on possessing them. So even disassembling the AK (remove the auto seer) rendering it "not automatic" wouldn't help. I think just having the auto-seer, the short barrel, or the suppressor in your possession is how the law matters...not assembled. Anyone well read in NFA law?
     
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    That part is correct, once full auto, always full auto. The question here is how does one transfer an NFA "permit" upon decease of the holder. I don't know, but before calling the BATFE, I'd do some googling, and soon. Someone knows a) he had one, and b) he's deceased, and a door knock can't be far off.
     
  5. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    [ditto]....
     
  6. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    There is a window of time between a death and a transfer that someone else needs to hold it, i THINK that can be a dealer in NFA.

    Typically, a father would Will those arms over to a son or daughter and then they can forgo the Tax stamp fee. At any rate, All he needs to do is to call the ATF and tell them that Dad died, he left an NFA AK and that the son would like to know the steps to initiate a transfer.

    The ATF is actually pretty helpful in this and I've spent countless times on the phone with them in the past. If he's afraid of that, he can contact a Class III FFL.

    Just because Dad is no longer in posession of it does not a new Felon make.

    Then again, I'm not an attorney nor am I in possession of an AK that is not registered to me.
     
  7. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    He needs to call the ATF.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
     
  8. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    WWSD?
     
  9. Conagher

    Conagher Dark Custom Rider Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    Here is some pertinent info;

    The registration or transfer process (to an individual or corporation) takes approximately 1–3 months to complete. Additionally, the firearm can never be handled or transported by any other private individual unless the firearm's registered owner is present. Corporations which own NFA firearms can loan them to any employee of the corporation with a letter of permission on the corporate letterhead. NFA items owned by trusts may be legally possessed by any trustee (ie, if a husband and wife are both trustees, either of them may use and transport the firearm without the other present).

    Upon the demand of any ATF agent, the registered owner must produce the original ATF Form with tax stamp affixed to prove the firearm is legally owned. Technically speaking, owners are not required to produce the form for any non-ATF personnel (i.e., local police officers do not have the legal right to demand to see the form).<SUP class=Template-Fact title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from September 2008" style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">[Wikipedia:Citation needed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png/220px-Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png/220px-Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png]</SUP> However, in practice, most NFA firearm owners keep a photocopy of their paperwork with the firearm at all times, and will show it to any authority that requests it to avoid legal issues. Many owners keep the original form in a safe place, such as a Safe deposit box - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Safeaccounts.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Safeaccounts.jpg/220px-Safeaccounts.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/e/e0/Safeaccounts.jpg/220px-Safeaccounts.jpg, to avoid damaging it, as the ATF will not replace a damaged $200 tax stamp.<SUP class=Template-Fact title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from July 2009" style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">[Wikipedia:Citation needed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png/220px-Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png/220px-Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png]</SUP>
    <SUP></SUP>
    <SUP>Now look at this below;</SUP>
    <SUP></SUP>
    In a number of situations, an NFA item may be transferred without a transfer tax. These include sales to government agencies, temporary transfers of an NFA firearm to a gunsmith for repairs, and transfer of an NFA firearm to a lawful heir after the death of its owner. A permanent transfer, even if tax-free, must be approved by the ATF. The proper form should be submitted to ATF before the transfer occurs. For example, lawful heirs must submit a Form 5 and wait for approval before taking possession of any NFA item willed to them (but since his Dad died and the son didn't have a chance to put in for a transfer yet due to an untimely death , he needs to call ATF like Quigs said to expedite the matter). Temporary transfers, such as those to a gunsmith or to the original manufacturer for repair, are not subject to ATF approval since they are not legally considered transfers. The ATF does, however, recommend filing tax-free transfer paperwork on all such temporary transfers, to confer an extra layer of legal protection on both the owner and the gunsmith
     
  10. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    WWSeacowboysD?
     
  11. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    I know.....;)
     
  12. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Class III weapons....question

    Soak in wax, wrap in burlap and seal in a plastic pipe and submerge off the end of the dock in dead of night? (All you alphabetters, j/k, of course.)
     
  13. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Transfers of National Firearms Act Firearms in Decendents’ Estates



    September 5, 1999
    <!-- InstanceEndEditable --><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="content" -->Transfers of National Firearms Act Firearms in Decendents’ Estates

    The National Firearms Act (<ABBR>NFA</ABBR>) Branch continually responds to questions regarding <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearms in decendent’s estates. We often find that Federal firearms licensees are involved in assisting the executors in disposing of these firearms. We believe some general information and discussion of procedures will help licensees in these situations.
    As you may be aware, the registration information we maintain is tax information and any disclosure of this information is generally prohibited. We may lawfully provide registration information to the executor of an estate. If there is any question regarding the registration status of the firearms in the estate for which you are assisting the executor, advise the executor to contact the <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> Branch directly and provide proof of his or her appointment as executor.
    If there are unregistered <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearms in the estate, these firearms are contraband and cannot be registered by the estate. The executor of the estate should contact the local <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> office to arrange for the abandonment of the unregistered firearms.
    For registered <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearms in the estate, the executor should take action as soon as possible to arrange for the proper registration of the firearms. Possession of an <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearm not registered to the possessor is a violation of Federal law and the firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture. However, we do allow the executor a reasonable time to arrange for the transfer of the registered firearms in a decendent’s estate. This generally should be done before probate is closed.
    It is the responsibility of the executor of the estate to maintain custody and control of the firearms and to transfer the firearms registered to the decendent. The firearms may not be transferred to another party, such as a firearms licensee, for consignment or safekeeping. This would be a transfer subject to the requirements of the <ABBR>NFA</ABBR>. The licensee may assist the executor by identifying purchasers and acting as a broker.
    The firearms may be transferred on a tax-exempt basis to a lawful heir. The executor would apply on <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> Form 5, Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, for a tax-exempt transfer to a lawful heir. A lawful heir is anyone named in the decendent’s will or, in the absence of a will, anyone entitled to inherit under the laws of the State in which the decendent last resided. <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearms may be transferred directly interstate to a beneficiary of the estate. When a firearm is being transferred to an individual heir, his or her fingerprints on <ABBR>FBI</ABBR> Forms FD-258 must accompany the transfer application. However, if any Federal, State or local law prohibits the heir from receiving or possessing the firearm, <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> will not approve the application.
    <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> Form 4 is used to apply for the tax paid transfer of a serviceable <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearm to a person outside the estate (not a beneficiary). <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> Form 5 is also used to apply for the tax-exempt transfer of an unserviceable <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearm to a person outside the estate. As noted above, all requirements, such as fingerprint cards for transfers to individuals and compliance with State or local law, must be met before an application may be approved. If an <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearm in the estate was imported for use as a “sales sample,” this restriction on the firearm’s possession remains. The <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearm may only be transferred to a Federal firearms licensee who has paid the special (occupational) tax to deal in <ABBR>NFA</ABBR> firearms or to a government agency.


    For further information, contact:
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives
    National Firearms Act Branch

    244 Needy Road
    Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 <ABBR class=country title="United States of America">USA</ABBR>
    Voice: (304) 616-4500
    Fax: (304) 616-4501



    Revised: February 23, 2006
     
  14. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I see I made a bad choice in who to agree with [booze]
     
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    :lol: E Pluribus Unum? (As long as you agree with T, you should be allowed to live.)

    [beer]
     
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