cold dead hands?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Tango3, Feb 27, 2009.


  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Hokay; Not sure where this will take me, Can we kill a few "archetypes"?. I am guilty as most of blustering :" they come get my guns katrina style they get the bullets first".Said it myself. Also said in the past: "The guy on the front step in tactical black may be county deputy Jim-BOB from down the street who brought the doritos to the superbowl party in your basement".

    That guns are inextricably tied to the "survivalist segment" is unquestionable.

    What does anybody really accomplish by "engaging" law enforcement head on? The laws are still on the books; they'll keep sending more guys until its quiet (over). and you'll make the local 6o'clock news (as crazed gun nut with an arsenal and over1,000 rounds of ammunition).(" He was such a quiet man...").[dunno][loco]

    Or does merely the open threat keep people like Pelosi on edge enough they watch their step around the 2nd? [beat][beat]

    I gotta go snowblow my mother in laws(more to follow)

    No discussion triggered ?
     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Make no mistake, there will be more Weavers before there is enough outrage to stem/stall/reverse the idiocy on Capital Hill. Not even the current State's Rights movement will get enough of their attention as long as the tax stream is not endangered.

    Worth the note, maybe, is that the Wall Street Journal has picked up on the State's Rights bills, and so has the Washington Post.
     
  3. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Local enforcement here are good friends, I do not see them coming by unless they wanted to shoot the *hit. I see Texas and much of the south like the western provinces of Canada. When they passed registration requirements, LE there stated they would not enforce the law, they didn't, and even if they would have tried they would have run into a lot of resistance. I think that local LE and especially rural LE will tell them to "piss off."
     
  4. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    I don't think LE would get real far if they tried to enforce a gun ban around here. Where I work people talk about doing illeagle things openly, because most around here do what they want to regardless of what LE says. Guns, poaching, and cock fighting are common topics. If someone says they saw a deer the first question is did you get it, regarless of the time of year. It is normal around here to look into someones truck and see a deer rifle laying beside them. Add on top of that there are only about 12 deputies for the whole county, with only 2 on patrol at any given time.

    OGM
     
  5. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    If y'all read of a smoking hole in a suburb just west of Tallytown, you'll know the bastidges got me...... :rolleyes:

    I have no intention of attending FEMA's "Summer camp for recalitrant fat Conservatives"...... [freedom]
     
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    You see my point though(?) ... is the doorstep shootout a "survivalist" myth?
     
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I don't think it is a myth, but I DO think there are a few out there that will focus the thinking. We can hope the message gets across before the alphabet agencies get involved with seek and destroy missions that are then quashed before publication.

    This "survivalist" mindset and over use of the term all inclusively with "preppers' has to be brought in line with reality. Guessing, and guessing only, there are well over 1000 preppers to each survivalist. It is a name game; being prepared for a shootout is a far different thing from actively inviting one with braggadocio.
     
  8. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I don't think it is a myth, the "powers that be" have to know that the threat is real. It would not take many doorstep shootouts before policy was affected, and if you have ever lived in the south you would know that we tend "to cling to our guns and religion." They would have to bring in the military for any results, and I would be willing to bet that a lot of soldiers would refuse the command. I hope we do not find out.
     
  9. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Should an incident take place would we even know about it? (concern over the "bubba effect" and all)????
     
  10. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    I do not know what I will do when the day comes but
    I DO KNOW WHAT I WILL NOT DO.
    I will not martyr myself.
    I will not surrender my mind, body or soul.
    I will not rape, pillage, abuse or enchain my fellow citizens.
    I will not kill without cause or need.
    I will not feel disgrace if I must retreat from the field of battle.
    I will not engage in self-defeating acts or thoughts.
    I will not give quarter to my enemies.
    I will not ever forget that I am a citizen of the United States of America. [flag]
     
  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I 'm just thinkin'... the automatic answer is always"go to guns",,,but other than ("suicide by cop") is there a BETTER response to confiscation? Something that will have some effect? Perhaps a winning idea; is not the thing to discuss in an open forum,.. I can buy that...
     
  12. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Voting from the roof-top comes to mind first and foremost. I would like to remind you that the NVA were all but invisible; learn from our history, something our elected seem destined to ignore. We let less than 15% of our population run rampant, burning, looting, and murdering every time there was a "rodney King" episode with the repercussions being a lot of welfare reforms and affirmative actions. I think white-men have mostly evolved into a bumch of whinning PW little snots that don't have anything more important than their day to day petty little lives. Some things are worthy of dying for, just remember "you can't fix stupid".
    And can someone explain to me why it is admirable to serve in the armed services "Projecting" our freedom to foreign oil but it reigns stupid and wasteful to die making a stand to defend our constitution?
     
  13. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I see your passion and agree careful measured response at a time and place of ones choosing and melt
    ing away is the key to the "small unit tactics"; going up against a numerically superior force on their plan is a noisy version of suicide.
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Wow, now that's a topic!
    Reply: There is a CURE for ignorance, we call it education.
    BUT,There is no cure for stupidity though, it refuses to listen to, or see the truth.
    About the local L/E here, I have found that a LOT of them are in fact "closet" survivalists.
    "Closet", in as much as they want to keep their jobs!
    They remain quiet, and oh so discreet.
     
  15. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    We are sending our children out to die fighting goat herders that live in holes like rats. There has been a $50,000,000.00 reward out for Osama Bin Anybody for seven years and not one goat-herder has dropped a dime on him.
    Russia learned the hard way, that the more we kill them, the more they join the fight. Their life is replenished with the blood of their patriots and the best we can do is wave that tired old flag about the American way of life and spread our version of freedom and liberty. Yes it is true that most of the residents of third-world shit-holes would love to come here but you don't see many people from Denmark standing in line at immigration, now do you? The United State that I grew up in was worth dying to preserve but the apathetic excuse for what we are becoming isn't worth the paper we use to wipe our own bottoms, forget about the rest of the world's.
     
  16. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Claire Wolfe's "hardyville" still rocks:http://billstclair.com/theclairefiles.com/Columns/WND/article31.htm?ARTICLE_ID=14101<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="620"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="12"> </td> <td width="336"> <!-- begin pfv --> <!-- writer and photo option --> <hr size="1" noshade="noshade"> <!-- end option --> <!-- leadin graphic --> [​IMG] <!-- end leadin graphic --> <hr size="1" noshade="noshade"> <!-- standing head --> <!-- end standing head --> <!-- head --> [FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]Before they come for the guns[/SIZE][/FONT]
    <!-- end head --> <!-- deck --> <!-- end deck --> <hr size="1"> [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times] [/FONT] [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times][FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif] <!-- byline --> By Claire Wolfe
    <!-- end byline --> [SIZE=-1] <!-- copyright --> © 1999 Claire Wolfe <!-- end copyright --> [/SIZE] [/FONT] [/FONT]
    <!-- begin bodytext --> [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"... Romanian term limits," somebody was saying as I walked into Grouchy's Gun Shop, just north of the Hardyville stoplight. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]The other guys around the counter laughed, as if at a bitter joke. Then their grins -- and their talk -- chopped off as they turned to see who'd come in. "She's OK," said the glance they exchanged. I went to look at holsters and they went on as if they'd never been interrupted. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Didja hear about this new executive order? That murdering dictator in the White House ..." one groused as I disappeared around a display rack. And it occurred to me -- not for the first time -- that this is why politicians and bureaucrats are so desperate to crush gun dealers and gun shows out of existence. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]It's got less to do with "killer guns" than with talk. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]Maybe they don't do it in the locked room at Cabela's, where rich folks buy $6,000 engraved shotguns, but in every gun store I've been in the last six years, this is what goes on all day. Talk. Talk about what's being taken away, and how brutally, how unlawfully. Talk about their whole culture being demonized and slowly legis-regulated out of existence -- not only "the gun culture," whatever that may be, but an entire culture of independence, individuality, and live-and-let-live. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]Like 'em or hate 'em, these once-peaceful gun owners of the '90s are feeling a lot like Jews of 1939 Germany. Maligned, lied about, persecuted and threatened. Afraid, confused and angry. Very. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]Of course, talk is proverbially cheap. A substitute for action, as often as not. Still ... if a revolution or a Bill of Rights underground is going to develop, it's going to happen here, in grubby little gun shops like Grouchy's. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]It is happening. ... [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"I was talking with Colonel Beaudoin, over at the Armory," stage-whispered one of the talkers. "He said if they ever get the order to confiscate guns, he'd warn some of us. That way we could turn over old junk and hide the good stuff for a 'rainy day.'" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"S---," snarled another. "If the government ever comes collecting guns, that's about as rainy a damn day as we're gonna get. What is this 'rainy day' BS, anyway? Do you suppose the farmers at Lexington and Concord just said, oh well, we'll let 'em take our guns now and will fight on some 'rainy day'? [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Look, if they come for the guns, we fight. Even if we can't do anything but die. That's the day. We either give up or stand up -- right then. But the truth is, I don't think they're gonna come for the guns. Not just like that." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Yeah. They'll just regulate everything away until there's nothing left. They're already doing that, one whack at a time." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Nothing left that's legal. But there will still be hundreds of millions of guns. They're not going to go away just because Rosie O'Donnell and Sarah Brady wish they would -- or just because politicians wave their magic laws. No more than booze or dope just went away. You know what this country's going to look like once there are hardly any legal guns anymore?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Cali. Medellin." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"The South Bronx." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Al Capone's Chicago." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Half a million more people in prison, at least." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Won't old Rosie like that, now?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"But speaking of Al Capone's Chicago, if they want to make criminals of us, some people are going to be good ones." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Good ones?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Yeah. For starters, most gun owners will outwit the Gestapo one way or another. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"They'll just crack down on anything we try, eventually." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"We outnumber them, though. Even if they put a half a million of us in prison, that still leaves millions of us out here." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Yeah, but doing what?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Well, if they make guns illegal or impossible to get, some people are going to build their own. And the thing is, when you can go to prison for owning a .22 single-shot target pistol, why not own something bigger and meaner, instead? Did you know you can build an assault rifle or machine gun -- from scratch -- with ordinary machinist's tools?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Friend of mine, a gunsmith, just got a new lathe. He says he can do anything now, including that." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"And if you don't have those tools, you can still Amazon.com: Marlin .22 Exotic Weapons System (9781581600179): Anonymous: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71C3DY1YEJL.@@AMEPARAM@@71C3DY1YEJL, right in your own garage." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Geez, that's crazy!" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Look, I'm not saying anybody should do it. I'm just saying that people will do it once they can't get legal stuff. It's a fact." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Some of those guns will be blowing up in idiots' faces!" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Yeah, just like some people went blind from drinking wood alcohol once the government stopped 'em from getting the legal booze. Just like they die of drug overdoses because there's no quality control. What else is new?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"But why would anybody want to build a machine gun? They aren't that effective, compared to Amazon.com: Art Of The Rifle (Firearms) (9780873649315): Jeff…@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Kwq-4NoKL.@@AMEPARAM@@51Kwq-4NoKL, too." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Like I said, if you're gonna hang for being a litterer, you might as well hang for being an international jewel thief. At least you get some excitement before they stick your head in the noose. Besides, it's not just machine guns. People will go for bigger caliber stuff. Exotic stuff. More destructive stuff. Just like they went for harder booze and stronger drugs once they were illegal. Just like they went back to big old .45 ACP once the Feinstein magazine ban made 9-mill less useful. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"It's not a recommendation. It's just history. Reality. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"And another thing. Don't you suppose those guys who're getting their cocaine shipments around the world will be happy to add another line of merchandise to the inventory? Stick some pistols in with the white powder. Even the government admits 90 percent gets through -- so you can bet even more than that does." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Oh, man. We're gonna have cartel wars between Glock and Colt!" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Something like that. Between whoever replaces them on the black market, anyway. But whatever happens, guns aren't going to go away. They're just going to get more dangerous, every which way -- for the people who own 'em, the people who shoot 'em, and the people getting shot at." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Then what's Rosie gonna be screaming for, I wonder?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Longer sentences. Death penalty for 'gun traffickers.' Then death penalty for 'possession.' House-to-house sweeps. Visits from your friendly, local SWAT team." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]For a moment, there was a silence. Then someone said, flatly, "We're still going to have to fight. In the end." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Probably." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Lay in a stock of military manuals, guys. And start readin.'" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Yeah, ain't it interesting that the biggest supplier of subversive literature in the world isn't really Paladin Press or Loompanics or Delta? It's the U.S. gummint. Teach you how to do everything from set booby traps to sabotage communications." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Their Amazon.com: Special Forces Handbook (9780873641098): U.S. Army: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XZ89G43EL.@@AMEPARAM@@41XZ89G43EL of yours, too." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Man, I don't want to get into any of this stuff! I just want to be left alone." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"You might not have that choice, someday. The gun-banners are setting up Amazon.com: Unintended Consequences (9781888118049): John Ross: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SEZT5T36L.@@AMEPARAM@@51SEZT5T36L that everybody's going to have to live with. They just don't understand that the only way to get rid of guns is to murder a few million gun owners. And after that, they'll have to murder all other people who get mad about the police state they created in the process -- and those guys will have found guns to fight with, somehow. I, for one, am gonna stand up and kick butt a long time before it goes anywhere near that far. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"I'll play criminal games as long as I have to. But someday, it's gonna be Lexington time all over again. And there's a few million of us out here who not only feel that way but have the experience -- Thank you, Vietnam; Thank you, Korea, World War II, Desert Storm and all Bill Clinton's little wars -- to know how to do it. And when you're talking guerrilla tactics, you don't need big numbers on your side." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"When, though? How do we know?" [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"If they come for the guns, for sure. When they burn the next church full of babies. Maybe. If they declare martial law. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe there won't be any one time, but a whole lot of little incidents over the years, leading up to something big. I just know we'd better be ready. Maybe it's even good that we don't know exactly when. Because that means they never know how far they can push us before we push back -- hard." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]At that point I came around the counter and the guys changed the subject. It's not that they suddenly realized I was overhearing. They knew all along there was a writer lurking. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]No, they'd just said all they had to say. For the moment. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Hey, Claire," one said, "you really stirred up a fuss with last week's Rosie O'D column." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Well, freedom lovers did. It seems we swamped Rosie's Web servers that morning and sent so many protests to Kmart that they took two of their e-mail addresses out of service. Most of the credit goes to other people." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"You said you were going to write about armed confrontation this week. I tell you, that Joseph Farah's a good guy, but he's never gonna let you write about that." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Oh, he might," I said. "If I handle it carefully." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]"Well, in that case," said one of the guys who, like the rest, shall remain nameless, "You just tell that Rosie O'Donnell something for us. We don't want trouble and we aren't gonna start any. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. But you can tell Rosie and all her fans -- including Chuck Schumer and Orrin Hatch and Larry Craig and Dianne Feinstein -- that when they send their goons after our guns, Hardyville will be waiting for them." <!-- end bodytext --> [/FONT]

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  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

  18. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    The Mods over at Hi-point forums have locked at the threads of this type it gives me the warm fuzzes knowing the 1<SUP>st</SUP> lives on here.
     
  19. QuietOne

    QuietOne Monkey++

    Emotion gets you killed. Planning saves your life. So I'll make a list. When they come for your guns you should:

    Shoot it out. Go down fighting.
    Run away. Live to fight another day.
    Hide your guns in advance. Don't tell anybody.
    Give up your guns. Be a good sheep.
    Give up a junk gun and say you don't have any more.

    Advantages and disadvantages for each of these ideas? Other ideas?
     
  20. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    On another forum EMed after I posted my list of “I will nots” to explain why he would never give up his guns. This is what I sent him back it for the most part tell how I feel about the subject.
    I fear that there is going to be so many that are going to stand at the doors of there house and try to fight it out, that there will not be enough left to make a consolidated force out of what is left. We are going to have to many martyr as it is. Another problem will be, every time that a citizen dies trying to defends his home from the Blue Headed Frogs the libs will paint him not as a victim but as a terrorist. When you see them coming to your neighborhood it is time {no past time} to grab what you can and get out of there. If you have to leave guns behind so be it, the most important thing is to live to fight another day. I am sure you have been trained in how to use a knife, don’t you think that by midnight you could catch at least one BHF vulnerable and rearm yourself? Every one talks about forming a united front to fight against any new gun laws, we also will need to form a united front when the day comes that they try to take our gun away from us. How will we do that when we are all dead at our front doors?
    If they catch you off guard at home, comply with every thing that they tell you to do, maybe they will let you live. What is the worst that can happen? They take you some where and hold you as a POW. You were trained in what to do if you were ever found your self taken prisoner were you not? The part that they will not understand is that taking and holding prisoners helps us not them, we now have trained men on the inside. If the BHF go around killing everyone that will not win the harts and minds of the citizens. Prisoner are going to be priority one for us, we will get you out. If you find your self taken prisoner don’t set on your hands and do nothing, learn everything that you can about how the BHF operate and try to escape as soon as you can, bring back something we can use.
    Think about it the BHFs roll into small town U.S.A. to take over and there is no one there except scumwads, gang banger and shepeoples, that will make there but-s pucker. Every time they have to go out and look for us it will draw manpower away from there forward bases, let them look we will out number them {Unless all of you die standing on your porches.} We will have men who’s job it is to run, taking the BHF right alone with them. Let them run right through our lines, over the top of our heads. Once they are past we take the base now they are homeless and they are fighting on two fronts.
    I am not an expert on military tactics but I know enough not to fall out of the truck and break my knick on the way to the battle.

     
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