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Colorado Man Faces Jail Time After Shooting Bear Cubs

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Motomom34, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    This happened a month back. When the news broke of this stories I was astounded how everyone was up in arms over these poor baby cubs being killed. Originally the man was facing felon charges but I guess things have lessened. The day this happened, he went directly to jail.

    I put this in freedom and liberty area because doesn't this man have the right to defend his property? When people say right to defend property most always think of a human intruder but a wild creature is a threat also. The wildlife department was handing out rubber bullets like pez from a pez dispenser this year. I have heard of multiple accounts of people's property being destroyed, livestock/poultry being killed etc...

    I own my property. I am willing to share my property with wildlife to a certain extend. What do you folks think of this story. Guilty, not guilty? Where should the line be when protecting ones property?

    Colorado Man Faces Jail Time After Shooting Bear Cubs | Field & Stream
    Aeason and UncleMorgan like this.
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    No, you don't. You think you own property because you paid a lot of money and have a house, and you no doubt obtained a piece of paper with a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo on it. You do not hold the actual title for the property, though. You probably have a bank slip or certificate, but the State owns all property in this country nowadays. You pay tax on said property, and if you fail to pay the tax, it's seized, by force. If you truly owned it, this would not happen. Property tax is just rent being paid to the actual land owner -the State.

    Why do I bring this up? Because it answers every question, that's why. We live in a Constitutional republic, even though it has been subverted by socialists and transformed into a corporate run oligarchy disguised as a Democracy. But, in a republic, whenever there is a question of "who is in the right", the first question which should always be asked is, "who owns the property?" because all rights are exercised through property ownership....

    And the answer to this unfortunate question for the matter in this thread is, the State owns the property.
    Aeason, Ganado, Motomom34 and 3 others like this.
  3. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Sounds like this guy is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier and in typical media misreporting style, what is the back side of the story. How many times has this happened before and what has he done to discourage them in the past? The stupid part is leaving a way for your dog to get out while all this is going on, or maybe that was the plan or his cover story to justify it.

    Can't say what should happen since so much info is missing, but starting out with 2 felony charges, are you F'in kidding!!!
    Aeason, Ganado, Motomom34 and 2 others like this.
  4. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    First; He failed to secure his trash. This attracted the bears.
    Second, he failed to control his dog and it got out placing itself in danger.
    Third by firing a live round and striking a nearby building he failed to know his target and what lies beyond.
    This last one really irks me because this is the trademark of the slob hunter and is how people get killed.
    Never mind the fact one of the cubs was wounded. I cannot tolerate a less than clean kill. Personally I've passed on more shots than I've taken for any number of reasons. I will not harvest an animal or euthanize a pest unless I know it will be a quick kill.

    Throw the book at him. maddd

    We do get black bears hearabouts from time to time and the only deterrent I use are 12 gauge bear bangers.
    125 db report and a flashbang right on the bear's butt gets 'em moving ! [OO][shoked]biglaff
    Aeason, kellory, tacmotusn and 6 others like this.
  5. Rocky Road Lerp

    Rocky Road Lerp Monkey+

    This happened by me. The bears were repeat (opportunists) trash diggers. The whole neighborhood acknowledges that. What I find more interesting than this man's stupidity or lack of respect for nature and it's laws is the fact that you can shoot a bear destroying your car but not for attacking your pet. But a LEO's dog is family, and granted personhood. I get part of that theory, wait no I don't, but my dog is more protected by me than some payment in my driveway. That said, that numb nut should have kept his animal in check and let the bears eat. We had a really wet Summer and the bears are struggling to eat. You can't punish them because you throw perfectly edible sh*+ in the garbage. There used to be a time when people practised common sense instead of using the law as a crutch. Wait, no there wasn't. Poor bears I say. We ruin too much.
    Aeason, tacmotusn, Ganado and 4 others like this.
  6. JohnSteven

    JohnSteven CHUNKY MUNKY



    [on the animals? I tend to think he'd have the right / liberty to defend his property ]
    Maybe if he'd been using a Tommy-gun and hosing bullets all over it'd be a bad response.

    [he should've secured his trash / kept it clean]
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
    Aeason and UncleMorgan like this.
  7. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    The guy was sloppy from the get-go. He handled his trash sloppy. He handled his gun sloppy. And he handled his dog sloppy.

    He caused the problem with his trash in the first place. Then the problem was exacerbated because he apparently never taught his dog to heel. Or even to come-to-poopsie, sweetie!

    (DUDE! The human is supposed to be the Alpha!)

    And his gunplay was not only sloppy but downright dangerous. He definitely needs a conviction on that part.

    I don't see why he had to confront the bears in the first place. They'd have left as soon as they ate his trash. He could have waited, cleaned up the scattered trash, and took steps to make sure it didn't happen again.
  8. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Bear are very aggressive when they are hungry. My neighbor had a bear trash her tuffshed. Those are not cheap and the bear ripped into it.

    He did thru though his neighbors house which was bad. That was the one thing I thought he should get charged for.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  9. JohnSteven

    JohnSteven CHUNKY MUNKY

    it all falls under the category of "He could-a done better" (Right?)

    I'd still like the "Right" to handle animals on my property (or gnawing on my leg) even IF I did happen to do something stupid.
    (without it being a Felony)
    I don't like the sound of "shooting cubs" and it helps make the guy appear "wrong".
    but I Like (even less) the sound of "Felony" ---

    granted its asking a lot of a neighbor to use his house for target practice. (yes it could-a been "accidental manslaughter")
    But that's why the guy needs "Friends" (or somebody) to kick his figurative butt / shame him / ADVISE HIM -into DOING Better...
    He also could-a died if momma bear got her hooks into him. (if those cubs thought it was a playground) I just don't know...

    I think leaning on "The Law" to handle this is not right.
    This is how average people get turned into criminals. (and it's happening more and more and more)
    Law / Government is entirely encroaching EVERYWHERE and it's from this silent consensual "agreement" that its okay he is a felon (now) for defending his property. (even IF he was a bit of a "boob" about things)

    so it worries me, when I hear about stuff like this. (I don't live there / I don't "know" what's fully going on)

    maybe he WAS completely "negligent" - in all things.

    maybe he should-a got the cubs AND the mother.
    maybe he should be making tallow candles from the fat of said animals... and curing bear meat for winter.
    (I've heard black bears are often losing fear of man) And can pretty much tear into anything they want...
    -unless it's armored with steel plate and razor wire-
    I know they can pry you out of a car like you're a NutMeat in a shell....
    In areas of New Jersey, black bears have the "run of the neighborhood" / cause fear in typical suburban households.
    there literally are small "herds" or "families" of black bears running in groups sometimes, in Jersey.

    in the southeast united states, wild hogs are running wild / growing herds / destroying farmland (very few American's hunt)
    coy dogs are going right INTO cities to live / during daytimes they lay low (maybe in bushes in your back yard). Typical residents in urban areas often don't know they walk within a few feet of a coy-dog that LIVES ... right under their nose. And is simply watching the humans pass them, oblivious to their presence. The animals are very stealthy. Small children HAVE been "taken" by the dogs... (just "disappeared")

    If the law was there because that man was very very out of control, then I can see why he got slammed.
    But I do wonder about such things. / legality / criminality.
    Aeason, Ganado and Motomom34 like this.
  10. john316

    john316 Monkey+

    i am with you.........a moma black bear never hurt anybody.....wouldnot hurt a dog

    google "bear attacks"
    only 358 hits
    the few people killed ...they probley started it
    the ones that lost arms or legs...............maybe they will stop trying to hurt a bear
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2015
  11. JohnSteven

    JohnSteven CHUNKY MUNKY

    I only have one thing to say-
    I will wait till you have done "Everything Right" and a bear STILL insists on checking you for "tenderness"

    the guy may have been "incompetent"......................... I wasn't there.
    and you're right, I know most bears AVOID a weaponless human.
  12. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter


    Nice try.
    I'm done here.
    JohnSteven likes this.
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Ok, As one who actually LIVES with Bear Neighbors, the best thing for the Bears, is to NOT get them habituated to eating Human Garbage.... Once they get that taste, and they learn, (and they do Learn) where there is easy pick'ens of Human Garbage to be had, they will return, and return, and return, for more, and the Mommas will teach the Cubs these learned lessons. This is what happens when Citified Folks, move out into Bear County, for the Peace & Quiet, but have absolutely NO CLUE, as to the critters that were there before them. This Dumb Yahoo at minimum should be FINED a couple of hundred for not Policing Up his Trash. Then He needs to be sentenced to Dog Obedience School, to learn to control his animals. It isn't the Dogs fault. He was just being a Dog. Then he needs to Pay the State a HUGH Fine, say a Grand or Two, for killing the Bear. If he lived in Alaska, ALL of the Above would have been imposed on him, by the Court, as well as a Gross Misdemeanor on his record.....
  14. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    The felony charges seem over the top. Responsible interaction with wildlife is just good management practice. I'm not sure we dont have a huge 'disney' programming problem in the USA. People are programmed to thing animals are like Disney characters and don't take the time to think about the nature of the beast. Its wild ;)

    We had a rancher here in AZ that his calving rate had dropped to 20%. (normal is 82-90% live calves) and he saw mountain lion tracks, lots of them. The USFW service kept telling him it was his mismanagement that was causing the decline in calving rates and there it wasn't mountain lions. (He's managed this range for over 50 years) USFWS kept telling him there were only 2-3 mountain lions in his area.

    The rancher hired a hunter, who in a 60 day period killed 30 mountain lions on this ranch. Long story short the rancher was fined $60,000 for those 30 mountain lions. But he counter sued for incompetence and mismanagement on the part of the USFWS and didn't pay even the attorney fees.

    Different Story
    This guy in the link below is a rancher and does mountain lion hunts in southern Arizona. In the picture book he tells the tale of thinking he was tracking a large mountain lion when he and his dogs actually treed a jaguar. Eyes of Fire - Home Page

    He always carries a gun in one hand and a camera in the other. Great story teller too ;) and before they revealed the presence of a jaguar this far north he talked with all his neighbors (in this part of the world neighbors can encompass over 100 miles and 2 different states) before revealing the pictures. Once he published this, this area became an 'endangered species habitat' for the USFS. Where as before publication, jaguar's were not thought to be present nor have a habitat in US soil. Another interesting 'government' taking, declaring areas 'endangered species habitats'.
  15. JohnSteven

    JohnSteven CHUNKY MUNKY

    it pays to simply be COMPETENT as well as LUCKY when it comes to apex predators.

    *Note to self* :::> "Do not use Slim-Jim-Scented deoderant before camping out"
    Aeason likes this.
  16. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I don't live on a ranch. So far I have not had bears Packed up vicious dogs several years back trying to have a go at my chickens and rabbits and my adopted outside guard dog was severely but not fatally tore up by a dog pack or coyotes once and it cost a chunk of cash to save him. I am on 20 acres that is well treed, and has a lot of understory brush as well. It is as I like it. It is my personal hunting preserve. I will do as I see fit to protect me and mine. Some would not agree with what that means to me and you may use your imagination as to what exactly it means. I will not declare one way or another what that means for legal reasons. What I do on MY property is MY Business, and I don't make it easy for Anyone to Nose into My Business. I like the trees and the brush, and the limited access, and other neighbors who mind their own business. I like the fact that I am off pavement 2.4 miles. !.2 miles of which is private drive/easement, and we have gates and no trespassing signs prominently displayed. I do not crow about anything that may not be PC or get the hackles up on some tree hugger or hippy or liberal. I also am a grumpy old ex-military NCO with attitude, a Gadsen flag, a Jolly Roger flag, and a US ensign in the distress position. It is also well known I am usually packing. I have confronted LEO's and Fish and Wildlife folks as well as reasons unknown trespassers. Often when these encounters occurred I was able to move into a position unseen where I had cover and concealment while the trespasser was pretty much exposed, before announcing my presence and asking what the Hell were they looking for and why were they trespassing on MY property.
    Bottom line, If folks are trespassing, nosing around on My property without a search warrant or an arrest warrant, or even a clue as to whose property on many times, they are on, they are shown the direction to travel to leave. There is a notice and a phone number to call for entry or to be met at the gate, along with the words that Any trespasser will be considered a hostile threat until proven otherwise. Avon doesn't call very often. Maybe once in 22 years.
  17. JohnSteven

    JohnSteven CHUNKY MUNKY

    That's a great story G'
    esp about the Jaguar
    In the far Northeast, (I lived in the northernmost tip of New York 1mi from the border)

    we "Never had any Mountain Lions"

    one morning I was out jogging (along the paved road)
    and I noticed some really really big paw prints of a "Giant Dog" (I wasn't looking close)

    as I jogged along, I slowed at one point and LOOKED at the prints, in a clear / sandy spot I saw it was a set of Cat Tracks paralleling the road. I placed my hand over it for size- and that paw print was about as wide as my entire hand.
    Cat Tracks. it freaked me out... but I guess we got a mountain lion in my little "quiet" tip of Northern New York. (where they don't really go.) Normally.

    Just as soon as I saw those big "cat prints" I was 1/4 a mile away from the house.
    I turned right around and went home.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  18. Rocky Road Lerp

    Rocky Road Lerp Monkey+

    OK,.............ahem.,............. Just read all the posts associated in this thread. I would like to clarify my position on this in a manner that might be found to be disrespectful to some, so I apologize in advance. BT had it right, we don't own shit. Period. A freaking bear, mountain lion, shark for that matter, have an intrinsic right to survive. If they don't, you don't. If you're gonna leave food for them they'll come. There are numerous videos of said bears rolling through the neighborhood, taking advantage of the food stupid people made available! If you wanna live in the wild you cannot attach society's rules. Lost all the buffalo thinking that way. Grizzlies used to be in California. Even Mexico. My point is if you're gonna be legalistic towards our ecosystem, you're doing it wrong, and I hope you don't survive. I fish, I hunt, I eat. But I ALWAYS RESPECT. Survival is an art and if you're an ass hat that isn't aware of your surroundings, and have no respect, (that man didn't) I hope you lose the right to own a gun. I don't wanna hear about felonies. They should have charged him with stupidity with a retard prior! Funny how he didn't shoot the mom?
    Aeason and Ganado like this.
  19. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I would have to agree with this almost %100. Only difrence would be a couple of deer slugs behind the Bear bangers, just in case they were not enough, and the Bear charged me.
    Aeason and Ganado like this.
  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    If I own a chicken coop and have it secure against all predators, do I not own that? My money and time go into that investment.

    Society's rules say I follow the law and can't dispose of the pest. Yes in society we like to think we own what we put time and money into. I really am questioning where the line is of what is mine and what is wildlife's. Do I have no rights where wildlife is concerned?
    Rocky Road Lerp likes this.
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