Congressional officials say congresswoman shot

Hispeedal2 · Jan 10, 2011

ghrit said: ↑

B and HSA
The Inferno is for the boxing gloves, please.
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Yes Sir.

Drumbo said:

My father was in the G2 Intelligence section of the USMC since WWII and he worked directly with CIA on occasion in Korea (actually OSI I think) and especially during The Bay of Pigs debacle. The whole experience soured him on his distinguished military career and he choose to retire as a Master Gunnery Sergeant after 20 years and became a car salesman for the next 20 years of his life rather than pursue a career with the CIA which was already a done deal. I know he loved his Marines, but when he was covertly sent into Cuba by E. Howard Hunt (codename: Edwardo) to make contact with resistance fighters, smuggle them out on rubber rafts and train them on Vieques(off Puerto Rico) and told if he was caught he would go down in history as a traitor to the USA, he lost his taste for the CIA.

I've read everything on the web about the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion, as well as every FoIA document that's been released and I know my dad was a part of it because several of the documents refer to his code-name, the Dutch freighter used to land his battalion of Cubans and other details he told me years before the "facts" came out. However, the details are redacted - not to protect anyone's identity, but to keep the true story of what happened out of public view. The Wikipedia article on The Bay of Pigs Invasion is history revisionism, pure and simple, saying only that Hunt recruited refugees in Miami - there's no mention of Vieques, Cuban nationals or the Marines who ran the operation and were ambushed when the promised air support failed to pin down Castro's forces.

My dad told me the true story in the 80s and we discussed it many times before he passed away in 2008, I even considered writing a book of his adventures, but he forbid it. I still have physical evidence from his effects including unit patches from Brigade 2506 and even a Cuban General's hat badge which he told me were classified for over 20 years. I've seen photos of the unmarked jet fighters, painted black that were to be flown by Marine pilots, but there's no mention of Secretary of Defense McNamara who talked Kennedy out of using the planes at the last minute without telling the invasion force. The CIA Report on the failure is a joke - the planes were key to the invasion, without them the Bay of Pigs became a shooting gallery with invaders on the beach and Castro's forces on the surrounding cliffs. The statements that Adlai Stevenson and Dean Rusk were lied to by the CIA is bass-ackwards. The CIA, the Marines and Brigade 2506 were sent like sheep to the slaughter by the White House. How my dad escaped with a handful of Cuban freedom-fighters is a story for another day. The point is, I know first hand that some secrets are still secrets forever, amen.
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I would have loved to pick his brain for awhile. Too bad it was never written. At least you have his thoughts and stories. Sounds like a great man.

Drumbo said:

Therefore, some of Broker's posts intrigue me, but I frankly had more use for Jesse Ventura when he wore a feather boa in the WWF. Al has some great posts here too and maybe, like he says, all this stuff belongs in the TFH forum. I'm conflicted.

I have learned that just because I don't want to believe something isn't reason enough to dismiss it. In Matt Bracken's books, which lead to all-out Civil War there's a line early on when someone says something like, "it's as if someone is standing in the middle taking pot shots at both sides and trying to start an all-out throw down." That's what happens in the books - is it happening in real life? Is someone trying to stir the pot enough to start a meltdown? Is someone hoping Obama will have to declare Marshall Law when TSHTF? I wish both sides would maintain a moment of silence for those victims.
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Good points. Never dismiss anything. That's a good moto that I have kept for a long time. It's always kept me out of trouble. That doesn't mean accept everything you hear. Keep in context the source. If you are listneing to Fox, conservative lean. MSNBC wants to ban everything up to large diameter screwdrivers. The CTs are just looking for an edge to push their true agenda which is typically anarchy (seriously read the backgrounds of a few).

Drumbo said:

I agree with Hispeedal2 when he says:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Ever since Al Gore lost, the demmys have been scared of the 2nd amendment issue. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
But... the "progressive' talking heads were out in force last night and they didn't sound scared. The fact that the House have suspended all scheduled agenda to "deal with this crisis" is hardly comforting.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">The House will not support anything anti-gun. The Senate has enough swing Democrats right now, they are unlikely to make a move. It's all backed up by the fact that the SC has ruled twice in the last year in favor the right to keep and bear arms. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The House "Will not" and the Senate is "unlikely" in the same paragraph makes me even more uncomfortable. I agree with the thesis, but one of their own took a bullet in the brain and the death of Judge Roll may be enough to give the swing vote on the SC pause. I've seen too much "unlikely" happen lately. If the deck is stacked or the herd stampedes, all bets are off.

As a novice prepper, I hope for the best but am preparing for the worst. Thank you gentlemen (and lady) for a spirited discussion.

"Truth springs from argument amongst friends." - David Hume
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Agreed, there is a lot of talk right now. It's hard to see which way this will turn. I don't think that most of Congress is shaking in their boots right now from a single random event. We will see. I sure hope common sense will prevail. We have done well the last year despite the doom sayers. It's not impossible for one event to change that, but it is a lot tougher than it was in 1994. I believe that we call that progress.

Seawolf1090 said: ↑

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LOL

VHestin · Jan 11, 2011

Tuscon changed things for me. Mainly because I got so beyond disgusted with the political posturing. Aside from thinking that anyone who's priority after hearing about Tuscon was politics, they can just go **** themselves, I've decided I will not tolerate people like that determining how I live my life. Course the politicians involved in such crap might be gone after next election anyways. I remember my aunt, who lived in Colorado when Al Gore was running for President, she said once that alot of residents got pissed off at him cause they felt he was trying to use the Columbine tragedy as a platform.

Brokor · Jan 11, 2011

Excellent post Drumbo.

Brokor · Jan 11, 2011

YouTube - Liberal Smear Machine Backfires After Gunman Found To Be Occultist, Pot-Smoking Left Winger 1/2

Drumbo · Jan 11, 2011

Just FYI:
Gun control: It's not a political impossibility
Washington Post Editorial Monday, January 10, 2011; 8:31 PM

franks71vw · Jan 11, 2011

where do we hit the reset button...

Hispeedal2 · Jan 11, 2011

Interesting times:
Arizonans Rally to Prevent Westboro Church Disruption of Shooting Victims' Funerals - FoxNews.com

fireplaceguy · Jan 11, 2011

Hispeedal2 said: ↑

Interesting times:
Arizonans Rally to Prevent Westboro Church Disruption of Shooting Victims' Funerals - FoxNews.com
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Yeah. Caught this on the radio this morning. Those Westboro folks are doing no good at all, anywhere, anytime.

I'll bet Sheriff Dipstick will be all over them, unlike his department's repeated contacts with the shooter that went nowhere...

VHestin · Jan 11, 2011

Said on Facebook earlier today that I'm glad WBC consider themselves Christians, so one day they can rot in Hell

Falcon15 · Jan 11, 2011

Cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, CULT...I hear whispers of Koresh in the air, and smell the Hell-fire they will burn in. May God have mercy on those who have to deal with these freaks.

Goldwampum · Jan 11, 2011

I always enjoy Stefan's perspective. He's very level headed, informed and critical in his thinking IMO.

ghrit · Jan 11, 2011

I wonder where their "church" structure might be found ---

No, you federal watchers, I don't mean burn it, I mean hold a rally in front of it. A BIG mutha rally.

Maxflax · Jan 11, 2011

What happened to keeping the thread on topic? Let's try to get back on track

Here's what we know about the assassin so far

Dope smoker

Occultist, had a skull shrine in a tent in the backyard where he made offerings to it

Registered Independent, did not vote in 2010

Raved about all sorts of issues, often irrationally

Was into some sort of mind warping meditation, etc

He was kicked out of college because he was disruptive and threatening in class, several students sent e-mails days before this incident, saying he was the type "to come back shooting". He had 5 run ins with campus police and was told he could only return if he had a written evaluation by a shrink that he was not dangerous

The assassin was jewish and his mother attended the same reform synagogue as the jewish congresswoman he shot

His main target may have in fact been the judge, and the congresswoman may have been a target of opportunity, as he also had some grudge against her

His parents attempted the keep FBI out of the house.. what are they hiding?

Links

Exclusive: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman's Grudge Against Giffords | Mother Jones

Shooting suspect's nihilism rose with isolation - Yahoo! News

UPDATED: Arizona Assassin Obsessed With Mind Control

fireplaceguy · Jan 11, 2011

Maxflax said: ↑

The assassin was jewish and his mother attended the same reform synagogue as the jewish congresswoman he shot
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That's an interesting tidbit. I had been wondering why we hadn't heard the "anti-semite" charge made by now.

Hispeedal2 · Jan 12, 2011

I found this interesting:

Shedding Ego in a Shooting’s Aftermath

By Nancy Colasurdo
Published January 12, 2011
FOXBusiness

On Jan. 8, just hours before hearing of the shooting of a congresswoman and others in Arizona, I was reading this tidbit from The Writer’s Almanac, a daily bit of joy that appears in my e-mail box every day courtesy of Garrison Keillor:
“ … n this [state of the union] speech, which he gave 221 years ago today, George Washington talked about the dilemma of protecting the borders, about the need for immigration reform, about how important it was for the nation to support scientific development, and about setting up national higher education. Washington ended his speech with a plea that Congress cooperate with him for the good of the American people.”
Seriously?
So maybe it isn’t so much that the rhetoric today is dialed up, but that we just have way more places to express it, and with immediacy. And so the information, and misinformation, spreads so rapidly that I find myself in a café where a young male employee asks his co-worker if she’s heard about Sarah Palin assassinating people. He went on to explain the story, backing it up with what he thought were facts.
Wow. Where to go with that. Let me start with this -- I agree with Palin on virtually nothing in the political arena. I agree with Karl Rove on virtually nothing except that Palin doesn’t have the “gravitas” to lead this country. That said, the response of too many left-leaning folks to this horrific shooting has been to further their own ego-fueled agendas; by natural extension, I suppose, we now have people from the right chiming in from that self-serving place.

I am reminded of a powerful anecdote author and spiritual teacher Marianne Williamson relates in her 1993 classic bestseller, A Return to Love. She tells of being at a cocktail party and engaging in a heated debate about politics and then having what she calls a “waking dream” in which she hears a voice telling her that in the cosmic roll call, she is a hawk and not a dove. She becomes incensed.
“You’re at war with Ronald Reagan, Caspar Weinberger, the CIA, in fact the entire American defense establishment,” the voice says to her. “No, I’m sorry. You’re definitely a hawk.”
Williamson realizes the voice is right.
“I had just as many missiles in my head as Ronald Reagan had in his,” she writes. “I thought it was wrong for him to judge communists, but I thought it was okay for me to judge him. Why? Because I was right, of course! I spent years as an angry left-winger before I realized that an angry generation can’t bring peace. Everything we do is infused with the energy with which we do it … What the ego doesn’t want us to see is that the guns we need to get rid of first are the guns in our own heads.”
Like author Eckhart Tolle writes in A New Earth, “When you confuse the ego that you perceive in others with their identity, it is the work of your own ego that uses this misperception to strengthen itself through being right and therefore superior, and through reacting with condemnation, indignation, and often anger against the perceived enemy. All this is enormously satisfying to the ego.”
And that brings me back to now and the aftermath of the shooting of Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and other Americans being shot in a horrific scene at a Safeway supermarket.
As an avid reader of the “Vows” column in The New York Times every Sunday -- it fascinates me to learn what brings people together, what attracted them, what sustains them -- it took a full day after Giffords was shot for me to recall she had been featured in one of my favorite ones when she married astronaut Mark Kelly in 2007. What had particularly struck me was that she had chosen a wake-up song for the launching of his shuttle mission on Discovery in 2006 – “Beautiful Day” by U2.
“When our relationship just kept getting deeper, I felt a huge sense of relief,” Giffords said in the piece written by Judith Anderson. “I had found someone like me. We’re both really curious. We’re focused on the same things.”
Lovely, I recall thinking.
And so it is with that context that I found myself pondering what I’d like to hear Giffords say should she blessedly make a full recovery from her critical brain injuries sustained at the hands of a gunman. Here’s what I came up with:
“Thank you for the abundant support and prayers at this challenging time. I felt buoyed with love and I know it helped my family and friends to feel that community and national support as well.
“My doctors tell me recovery will be slow and require patience and determination, but with the continued support of family and friends I am looking forward to forging on to do the work I was elected to do. Anyone who knows me is aware I welcome adventure in my life -- I am married to an astronaut, right? -- and I won’t be swayed from the work that is so meaningful to me.
“I am told that about 800 Republican and Democratic Congress members and spouses took part in a conference call for unity the day after the shooting and I am so heartened by that. I so appreciate Speaker John Boehner setting such a unifying tone in his new role at a time when it is sorely needed. The idea of something remotely positive coming from this life-altering day gives me hope and strength.
“Let me be really clear about my intent moving forward. I believe life needs to be lived fully and in order for that to happen, we must embrace openness. The rewards of that come with risk. I will not close myself off from life because one misguided soul wants us to be afraid. That doesn’t mean I will skirt common sense and put myself in recklessly vulnerable situations. But neither does it mean I will build a wall between myself and my constituents.
“Furthermore, I will not use this senseless tragedy to feed anyone’s political agenda. I am a centrist Democrat whose views are not dictated by my party but my evolving belief system. My views on gun control haven’t changed. My views on health care and immigration haven’t changed. Last year I expressed my distaste for the inflamed rhetoric in our political discourse, but I will not now point a blaming finger at anyone but the young man who pulled the trigger in an unspeakable act of violence.
“Like Speaker Boehner said, we’ve seen humanity at its worst here. There’s no reason to inflame the already overcharged political climate by tapping into our own egos in response. I leave you with a quote from a recently published book, Love for No Reason by Marci Shimoff: ‘The softest thing in the world is an open heart. The hardest thing in the world is a closed, constricted heart. The open heart welcomes everything and, in doing so, grows in power.’
“Let us seize our power in this way moving forward.”

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Source:
Shedding Ego in a Shooting's Aftermath - FoxBusiness.com

Hispeedal2 · Jan 12, 2011

More on the shooter:

"I really think that this 'Zeitgeist' documentary had a profound impact upon Jared Loughner's mindset and how he viewed the world that he lives in."
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Report: Arizona Gunman Was Not Motivated By Politics - FoxNews.com

Zeitgeist: The Movie is a 2007 documentary film by Peter Joseph. It asserts a number of conspiracy theory-based ideas, including the Christ myth theory, alternative theories for the parties responsible for the September 11th attacks and that bankers manipulate the international monetary system and the media in order to consolidate power.
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Zeitgeist: The Movie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ghrit · Jan 12, 2011

The guy is in jail. Hundreds of witnesses. Buried by people with the gun still in hand. And he's referred to as "suspect?" "Alleged?" WTF,O?

Guilty as hell, no need to try except to fulfill a formality. The debate is, as it should be, over the price to be paid for expending 31 perfectly good 9mm bullets. Let's not spend a lot of time with that either. (Don't bother sterilizing the needle, if the shot doesn't work, maybe the infection will.)

No point to wasting oven gas that I can see. Dump what's left on the interstate and let the traffic reduce the rubble like a deer carcass on I-81.

Brokor · Jan 12, 2011

YouTube - Loughner, Just A Weak-Minded Liberal Who Hated Life, Family and Country - Alex Jones Tv 1/2

Maxflax · Jan 13, 2011

fireplaceguy said: ↑

That's an interesting tidbit. I had been wondering why we hadn't heard the "anti-semite" charge made by now.
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Largely because the mainslime media is owned by jews, who cover up these sorts of incidents

Initially there was such a hue and cry, but it was quickly squicked

Brokor · Jan 13, 2011

Maxflax said: ↑

Largely because the mainslime media is owned by jews, who cover up these sorts of incidents

Initially there was such a hue and cry, but it was quickly squicked
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You know, I don't think it's that at all. There are plenty of "gentiles" and other ethnicity groups in the media. It is more true that Hollywood may be dominated by horny white Jewish men, but the media is a bit different. However, I will say that the corporate media is entirely in the business of protecting Israel and the close relations the US Gov has with it, but that is purely for financial reasons and political reasons. I don't like the Anti-Semitic theory one bit, to be honest. If you do choose to use that opinion, may I suggest at least calling them Zionists?

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Congressional officials say congresswoman shot

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