Could Benghazi have been protected

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by -06, Oct 29, 2012.


  1. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Surely this is not true--can anyone shed light on it??????
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    There were two AC-130Us deployed to Libya in March as part of Operation Unified Protector.
    The AC-130U is a very effective third-generation fire-support aircraft, capable of continuous and extremely accurate fire onto multiple targets. It has been used numerous times in Iraq and Afghanistan to save pinned-down allied forces, and has even been credited with the surrender of the Taliban city of Kunduz
    It was purpose-built for a select number of specific mission types, including point-defense against enemy attack. It was literally built for the kind of mission it could have engaged in over Benghazi, if the administration had let it fire. As the excerpt above clearly shows, we had assets on the ground “painting” the targets with the laser.
    ...................................................................................................................................
    What this means is that we have the forces in the air and on the ground to have stopped the attack at any point, eliminating the terrorists and saving American lives.
    Update (Bryan): Here is an AC-130 engaging in a live fire exercise. The crackling sound you hear is its extreme rate of fire.
    Update: Black Five confirmed with a retired Delta operator: The fact that ground personnel were painting the target says there was a Spectre on station.
    Having spent a good bit of time nursing a GLD (ground Laser Designator) in several garden spots around the world, something from the report jumped out at me.
    One of the former SEALs was actively painting the target. That means that Specter WAS ON STATION! Probably an AC130U. A ground laser designator is not a briefing pointer laser. You do not “paint” a target until the weapons system/designator is synched; which means that the AC130 was on station.
    Only two places could have called off the attack at that point; the WH situation command (based on POTUS direction) or AFRICOM commander based on information directly from the target area.
    If the AC130 never left Sigonella (as Penetta [sic] says) that means that the Predator that was filming the whole thing was armed.
    If that SEAL was actively “painting” a target; something was on station to engage! And the decision to stand down goes directly to POTUS!
     
  2. Illini Warrior

    Illini Warrior Monkey+

    heard another tidbit this am on talk radio .... another embassy whisleblower is saying that the streets were blocked off HOURS before the actual attack began ..... the attackers brought in weapon mounted trucks and closed off the area .... the appeal for help went out before the previous reports .....
     
  3. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

     
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  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The problem is that zero is a micro manager and doesn't trust anyone to do anything without his specific authorization. All he had to do was hear that the US was under attack and tell JCS to deal with it. He doesn't need to tell each and every operator that it's OK to pull a trigger. Egomaniac. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder.)
     
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  5. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

     
  6. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    Juxtapose all this with an image of the guards standing watch at the tomb of the unknown because they consider it a sacred honor to do so. In the past dis regarding authorisation to seek shelter in a storm. These soldiers are representative of most of our servicemen and women. To think that they are under the command of a bunch of POS pols makes me so glad to know that my oath was to the constitution and not to these lying cowards who think they are my leaders.May all of them who had a hand in allowing no help to reach those under attack head for hell at a rapid clip and a salute the brave souls who rejected the dog and pony show and went to the aid of the ambassador.If what -06 says is true then in my opinion a strong branch should be selected and used.............again and again until this nation wakes up and returns this country to our founders vision.
     
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  7. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    "Leave your post, soldier."
    "No disrespect to your office, Mr. President, but I do not take orders from you."

    (About face, resume post. No salute.)
     
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  8. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

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  9. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Libya Attack Shows Pentagon’s Limits in Region

    Excerpts:
    About three hours after the American diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya, came under attack, the Pentagon issued an urgent call for an array of quick-reaction forces, including an elite Special Forces team that was on a training mission in Croatia.
    …….
    The team dropped what it was doing and prepared to move to the Sigonella naval air station in Sicily, a short flight from Benghazi and other hot spots in the region. By the time the unit arrived at the base, however, the surviving Americans at the Benghazi mission had been evacuated to Tripoli, and Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were dead.
    ……
    At the heart of the issue is the Africa Command, established in 2007, well before the Arab Spring uprisings and before an affiliate of Al Qaeda became a major regional threat. It did not have on hand what every other regional combatant command has: its own force able to respond rapidly to emergencies — a Commanders’ In-Extremis Force, or C.I.F.

    To respond to the Benghazi attack, the Africa Command had to borrow the C.I.F. that belongs to the European Command, because its own force is still in training. It also had no AC-130 gunships or armed drones readily available.

    As officials in the White House and Pentagon scrambled to respond to the torrent of reports pouring out from Libya — with Mr. Stevens missing and officials worried that he might have been taken hostage — they took the extraordinary step of sending elite Delta Force commandos, with their own helicopters and ground vehicles, from their base at Fort Bragg, N.C., to Sicily. Those troops also arrived too late.

    “The fact of the matter is these forces were not in place until after the attacks were over,” a Pentagon spokesman, George Little, said on Friday, referring to a range of special operations soldiers and other personnel. “We did respond. The secretary ordered forces to move. They simply were not able to arrive in time.”

    An examination of these tumultuous events undercuts the criticism leveled by some Republicans that the Obama administration did not try to respond militarily to the crisis. The attack was not a running eight-hour firefightas some critics have contended, questioning how an adequate response could not be mustered in that time, but rather two relatively short, intense assaults separated by a lull of four hours. But the administration’s response also shows that the forces in the region had not been adequately reconfigured.
    ……
    Some Pentagon officials said that it was unrealistic to think a quick-reaction force could have been sent in time even if the African Command had one ready to act on the base in Sicily when the attack unfolded, and asserted that such a small force might not have even been effective or the best means to protect an embassy. But critics say there has been a gap in the command’s quick-reaction capability, which the force would have helped fill.
    …….
    On the day of the attacks on the mission and a nearby annex in Benghazi, General Ham and other commanders were in Washington for a series of long-planned meetings. The Pentagon’s national military command center distributed a report around 4:30 p.m., 50 minutes after the assault started, that there had been violence in Benghazi and that the ambassador could not be located.

    President Obama was informed about the attack at 5 p.m. by his national security adviser, Thomas E. Donilon, at the start of a meeting at the White House with Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta and Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Libya was not the only worry. There were also protests at the United States’ embassies in Tunisia, Egypt and Yemen.

    In the meeting, Mr. Obama ordered the Pentagon to begin “mobilizing all available military assets to respond to a range of contingencies in Libya and other countries in the region,” said Tommy Vietor, a spokesman for the National Security Council.

    But the administration was not well positioned to respond quickly. On the night of the attack, the Pentagon was able to divert an unarmed Predator drone operating 90 miles away to Benghazi, and the C.I.A. later used it to help plan an escape route for the surviving Americans.

    Two military officers working at the embassy in Tripoli volunteered to join C.I.A. reinforcements who arrived in Benghazi early the next morning, just before a series of deadly mortar rounds struck the agency’s annex in Benghazi and killed two C.I.A. security contractors.

    But other military forces were too far away or could not be mobilized in time. The closest AC-130 gunship, a devastating and accurate weapon against insurgents in urban areas, was in Afghanistan, a senior official said.

    There are no armed drones within range of Libya. The closest fly out of Djibouti, in the Horn of Africa, and were not in range of Benghazi. There was no Marine expeditionary unit — a large seaborne force with its own helicopters — in the Mediterranean Sea. American F-16 fighters in Europe were not on alert, and General Ham concluded they would not have been useful in a confused fight in a major Arab city.

    Acting on Mr. Obama’s order, the staff of the Joint Chiefs presented the options. Around 6:30 p.m., oral instructions were given for the units to get ready to deploy and formal deployment orders were issued after 8:30 p.m. The early reports in Washington noted that Ambassador Stevens was missing, and a major worry was that a hostage-rescue mission might be needed.

    The Pentagon sent the Delta Force commandos to the Sigonella base in Sicily, to put them in position to deploy to Libya. Two 50-strong platoons of specially trained Marines, from Rota, Spain, were ordered to get ready to deploy, too.

    Another option approved was to send the European Command’s quick-reaction force, which consists of about four dozen Special Forces soldiers and other specialists. But it was in the middle of a mission in Croatia. Elements of the team began leaving for Sigonella by 9 p.m., and the unit completed its deployment to Sicily shortly after noon the next day, a Pentagon official said. By then the 30 or so surviving Americans, and the bodies of their four colleagues, were in Tripoli.

    With the region still in turmoil, the European Command’s quick-reaction team was sent on to Tunis. One of the Marine platoons was sent to Tripoli to protect the United States Embassy there. The Delta Force commandos, having arrived too late to help, flew back home, Pentagon officials said.
    …….
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/world/africa/benghazi-attack-raises-doubts-about-us-abilities-in-region.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121104
     
  10. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    (tears in my eyes)
     
  11. NWPilgrim

    NWPilgrim Monkey++

    Well the NYT article sounds like a carefully crafted CYA for Obama. When an organization has a management problem you look at the scope of the problems and that tells you who is the party not doing their job at the top.

    If all the problems were in DoD then it would be a top general, JCS, or Panetta. If it was all in State then the ambassador or Hillary. But when there are critical strings of bad decisions and planning gaps in multiple Depts. it is the President.

    I don't think we have scratched the surface on this crap pile of corruption and deceit yet. I think the NYT version grossly misrepresents our military force capability in the region or Panetta should be strung by the gonads. A continental command in one of the most violent and chaotic theaters without Ac-130, armed drones that even attack in Yemen, reaction forces, etc. What exactly does AFRCOM have if not boots on the ground and basic ground attack aircraft? A plush AC headquarters? And the commanders have all left the ME and north Africa during 9/11 after all the violent uprisings? Sounds convenient.
     
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  12. Georgia_Boy

    Georgia_Boy Monkey+++

    This is all as plain as the noses on our face. This was treasonous murder. Murdered Americans watched by americans. Admirals and Generals do not throw their careers away for trivial actions. Some leaders know when to say NO! While others go to bed......
    GB
     
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  13. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    IMO, most of this is cover up BS. We have planes available to most areas of the world on a moments notice. Refueling in the air can keep a plane going for hours on end. Lying nobammy said it was a mob attack that killed them--the SOB knew better and lied about it to cover his worthless posterior and those a-- kissing yes men running the show for him. Why did he fire Gen. Ham and Admiral (?). Why was Ham relieved of his command? This attack was not a 15 minute firefight but a protracted one lasting 7-8 hours. We did not mind bombing civilian targets during the Libyan "revolution" or strafing non military targets. We did not mind firing hundreds of Tomahawks (@ one million each) to achieve victory for his muzzie friends---but we could not have one aircraft stop an attack on our people. Like I said--just a BS coverup of grand design.
     
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  14. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    Don't know about other branches but being an ex jarhead taxi driving squid they had elements within CSG-3 that could have been mustered and debarked almost within minutes and on the way to the AO.We could do this 40 years ago so I have no doubt we could do it just as fast now.No carrier group flag throws away his career on an empty gesture as each has at his beck and call massive and varied means of response.I agree that the article was a CYA attempt by at least inept and probably treasonous empty suits.Sounds like Admiral Gaouette is a flag this old gator would have liked serving under.
     
  15. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    The election has the media frothing at the mouth at present. Maybe by next week we can get some more info on it.
     
  16. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

    So true, and I couldn't have phrased it better.

    Random bit of info: I just read that the ex-SEALs/CIA were armed with Mk48's and mounted IR laser designators. Just the stuff they would have carried in the field in their SEAL days, so that makes sense. And there are so many people that call the SAW a POS... They died by morter fire, in one of the three rounds to hit the rooftop of the consulate. They were some tough MF'ers; glad they were on our side!

    Edit to add: I ment absolutely no disrespect to the fallen and their families, I give them my deepest respect and sympathy to the families.
     
  17. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    CIA: We Didn’t Ask for Help During Benghazi Attack

    by Eli Lake Nov 15, 2012 4:45 AM EST
    Excerpts:
    When the CIA’s acting director, Michael Morell, testifies Thursday before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, he is expected to say that the agency never requested Europe-based special operations teams, specialized Marine platoons, or armed drones on the night of the Sept. 11 attack in Benghazi, Libya, according to a senior U.S. intelligence official.

    The disclosure may put an end to one line of inquiry into the Benghazi affair about why reinforcements from the region were not sent on the night of the attack. “Assistance from the U.S. military was critical, and we got what we requested,” the senior U.S. intelligence official said.

    According to a Pentagon timeline made public last week, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta prepared multiple military responses from the region at around midnight Benghazi time, more than two hours after the initial assault began. Those orders included mobilizing two special Marine platoons known as Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team (FAST) from Rota, Spain, to deploy to Tripoli and Benghazi. Panetta also ordered a special operations force, training in central Europe, to deploy at the Signonella Airbase in Italy. Another special operations team based in the United States also prepared to deploy to Libya.

    The CIA, however, requested none of that assistance. Neither did the State Department. None of those teams ever arrived in Benghazi.

    On the evening of the attack, the military provided two kinds of support to the CIA security officers who tried to fend off an attack at the U.S. diplomatic mission and then later stood guard at a CIA base less than a mile away, which was hit in a second wave at about 5 a.m. (A U.S. military team working for the CIA was sent that evening from Tripoli, but that team did not arrive at the CIA annex until after the U.S. diplomatic mission was overrun.)

    The military support included an unarmed predator drone that recorded the dramatic rescue of U.S. personnel from the diplomatic mission to the CIA base at about midnight. (Timelines differ between the Pentagon and the CIA.) The U.S. military also provided medevac support to survivors of the attack that killed Ambassador Chris Stevens, State Department communications specialist Sean Smith, and two retired Navy SEALs, Tyrone Woods and Glenn Doherty.
    .......

    CIA: We Didn’t Ask for Help During Benghazi Attack - The Daily Beast
     
  18. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Woods: “Where the f**k is the Spectre“

    I edited the F word.



    As it was parked on a runway in Libya, Spectre could have been there in minutes, then the fast movers, and finally ground forces.
     
  19. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Minutes? That would assume the Crew was aboard, the aircraft was Preflighted, and Fueled, and Weapons Load is aboard. Those are ALL very big assumptions.... and the crew was in contact with their Higher HQ to get the Tasking Order....
     
  20. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    At least one AC-130s would sit fully loaded for bear, pre-flighted, and ready to go when given the word to go. The other would be ready to go also. This isn't civilian aviation. This is how they provide "rapid response." It is also how they get expensive aircraft out of Dodge if needed. ;)

    I am not sure if the crew stays on the aircraft same as the Vn era counter mortar Huey gunships did. Time to take off was however long it to to crank it up and pull pitch. About all that is needed was to plug in the weapons systems.
    My uncle flew on Puff. They flew out of Udorn, Thailand every night and circled the skies of Vn waiting to be assigned a mission. So Spectre could have been in the air already which would be an assumption. That it was ready to go isn't.
     
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