Could the 1911 be redesigned to be more modern ?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by BigO01, Nov 16, 2007.


  1. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Lately I have read a fair number of posts on various forums about how popular the Springfield XD has become among even 1911 lovers due to it's ease of maintenance which I assume to mean filed stripping and it got me to thinking .

    While I have no problem stripping my guns without Full length guide rods I absolutely hate the one I have with a FLGR and as it has a 4 inch barrel instead of a Commander copied 4 1/4 I have yet to get it to run without the dang thing .

    Yet here I have a Taurus PT940 Full Length Rod and all and it is a joy to strip due to a take down lever .

    I also hate the occasional frame scratch I get installing the slide release lever in my 1911's .

    Now why in the world hasn't anyone tried to redesign the 1911 to incorporate a take down lever and simplify the whole dang process ?
     
  2. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    blashemer!!

    Off with his head!!May the spirit of john browning haunt your dreams for your offenses...(if it works don't fix it)
     
  3. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I have always thought that 1911 lovers were folks that LOVED to play with and tune and tweak their firearms. I can appreciate the design, but a $500 1911 out of the box needs a lot of the above TLC before it can be slid into the save-your-life type reliability.

    Funny how us GLock guys still get poo pooed even though EVERY company out tere is making a plastic framed semi auto these days. I have shot the XD and really liked it. But, Out of the box, I still like my G. I have carried a glock that I had never even test fired before. That is trust.

    But yes, you should have a better take down system.
     
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Now why in the world hasn't anyone tried to redesign the 1911 to incorporate a take down lever and simplify the whole dang process ?

    Well, because it wouldn't be a 1911 if you did. Now then, why do I not have a problem with takedown? Wassamadda me? [gone]
     
  5. gillman7

    gillman7 Monkey+++

    Ya know, that is like asking why can't they make a Harley that does leak oil?

    [chopper]
     
  6. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Doesn't yours come with a little bushing to put on the end of the guide rod? Or was that my micro compact?
     
  7. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    [​IMG]
     
  8. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Come on now guys let's be serious , Tango first there are some things that could be changed that JMB never wanted on the gun in the first place , the grip safety and the arched mainspring houising were both the Army's idea "although I like Arched housings myself over the flat ones , even though I shoot well with either" .

    Now Melbo as for reliable $500 1911's you should try the Armscor 1911's , my Armscor made Charles Daly EFS ran me $379 OTD it was and is very reliable all I needed to do to it was change out the recoil spring because the factory ones are underpowered , with a standard Wolf 16# she runs 100% with factory loads and jacketed bullet reloads . The only hicups I have are with my 200 gr lead SWC reloads and these bullets cause problems in many guns and even then I get 99% reliability . My 4 inch one has run 100% with everything I have fed it from day 1 but I paid closer to $500 for it because they were hard to find .

    I chose the 1911 because it served America through 2 world wars and several other conflicts and Police forces for decades before we became PC
    and it is still the choice by the top LEO units like SWAT and HRT teams .
    The only TLC mine get is a couple of drops of oil on the rails or a quick shot of Remoil every few months .

    Ghit why would a simple change make the whole thing NOT a 1911 you gonna tell me you never had problems lining up the link with the frame hole so you can insert your slide stop ? Ever had to scrounge around for a paperclip to take down one with a stupid FLGR ?

    If we stuck with the "It aint broke don't fix it" thinking your car would have the tires made out of chisled rocks or wood banded in a metal hoop instead of rubber and you would still be reading by candle light at night .

    O and Melbo I think you're plain nuts to carry an untested gun even a revolver provided you aren't kidding .

    One thing about the Glocks , I distinctly remember an interview with Gastion Glock when these hit the American market that I read in G&A magazine .

    He stated plain and simple he designed his weapons around the fact that handguns are carried far more often than used hence the plastic and extreme light weight .

    He did obviously design a fine 9mm weapon for reliability but , when all hell breaks loose I want a gun designed to fight with not be carried comfortably in a holster so make mine with steel thank you very much .

    1911's have been in service almost 100 years now thats one heck of a service record .
     
  9. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Nicely put.


    Some army guys in the post wooden wheel days carry Glocks. They also drink wine out of there canteens but thats beside the point.
     
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Must be the micro, full size doesn't have one, at least mine doesn't. About the only problem I've had was chasing the spring cap across the room once.

    Ghit why would a simple change make the whole thing NOT a 1911 you gonna tell me you never had problems lining up the link with the frame hole so you can insert your slide stop ? Ever had to scrounge around for a paperclip to take down one with a stupid FLGR ?

    There are already so many tweaks done on 1911 frames and parts without really changing the configuration dramatically. Some mods are useful, some are merely cosmetic. It's all good; changing from 6 volt to 12 volt was a significant advance in automotive applications, that did not make a car not a car. Just wait until we go to 48 volts and fiber optic controls, coming soon to a dealer near you.

    And no, I've had less problems with lining up the link than I have spilling coffee on my keyboard, it just has not slowed me down as long as I do it with my glasses on so I can see the holes line up.

    I also hate the occasional frame scratch I get installing the slide release lever in my 1911's .

    I have one of those. It seems that the detent also has to be broken in as well as the rest of the mechanisms. Remembering that this is my first 1911, I have learned a bit in the process --

    If we stuck with the "It aint broke don't fix it" thinking your car would have the tires made out of chisled rocks or wood banded in a metal hoop instead of rubber and you would still be reading by candle light at night .

    Reading by candlelight can be charming. Now, take careful note: Henry Ford didn't make a perfect car the first time, same as JB didn't make a perfect handgun on the first try. Both cars and semi-autos have undergone considerable upgrading throughout time. Many other makers have come and gone, and some are still around. How many other devices designed and built along that 100 year time line are still made in pretty close to the original configuration? Time tested works for me, but I'm a throwback, I don't jump on the latest and greatest toys (par ex. fast computer chips) just to keep up with the geeks. Don't take this as castigating the lovers of plastic guns, it's a matter of what suits you. JB's design does it for me. (But not for concealed carry, I can't hide the beast on my scrawny carcass. But I have not completed the break in yet, so I don't rely on it. Yet. It does NOT like flying ashtrays. Yet.)

    In any case, you cannot make a mercedes of a yugo by hanging the spinner on it.[troll]
     
  11. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I have always thought the 1911 to be as close to perfection as you can get. I wouldn't change a thing except to upgrade a few things like the grips, sights, or finish. Anything can be accurized without changing the design. Tweaking is good, but if someone wants something easier to take-down or more ergonomic, that's what the polymer pistols are all about. The Mona Lisa would be a lot hotter is she'd shown a little more tit and I am always reminded that a camel is nothing but a horse designed by a committee.
     
  12. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    [fnny]
     
  13. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    My Champ has that takedown bushing, which makes it a breeze to clean. Maybe if they put polymer/teflon surfaces where the slide travels on the frame, where you could put on new ones when they wear. As it wore you get alignment problems. But still the barrel would wear. So it's about perfect already. Just keep the ramp polished and they function fine. A switch for FMJ and hollow points would be nice.
     
  14. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    If it was redesigned it wouldn't be a 1911. Now to take components out of the 1911 design and implement them into another design is a whole different thing, such as the Springfield XD.
     
  15. Higgy

    Higgy Tinkerer

    This is a good point, and not to confuse the issue, but mechanical transportation and the lightbulb are examples of new technologies. Modern handgun design is a combination of innovation and design-evolution - but are not the same thing as your analogy.

    That said, I am now a former owner of an XD45 Tactical. It was a good gun. It shot a little high, but I dealt with that. Overall I was impressed by the quality and finish, but I truly believe poly guns should be priced like the Kel-Tecs because they are very cheap to produce in massive quantities. I say I am a former owner, because I hated the fact that it was impossible to get any factory replacement parts out of Springfield Armory. I wanted a new slide to do some experiments on. Nope. New Slide spring? Nope. New Firing Pin Spring even? Nope. I decided that if I recovered some of the money I spent on the XD then I could buy a better gun - one with some factory support.

    I got me a Kimber Stainless Pro-Carry II with Meprolight sights and I couldnt be happier.
     
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