Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Dunerunner, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    June 6, 1944

    By this time many brave and undaunted soldiers stormed the beaches of Normandy against a fearsome and formidable enemy. Take a moment to reflect upon the courage it took to depart a landing craft under hostile fire and march into the jaws of certain death for... an idea. An idea that men should live free of tyranny. An idea that the people should control their destiny, not their government. An idea that All people of this Earth were created equal with specific God given rights.

    Zimmy, oldman11, Motomom34 and 9 others like this.
  2. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    The day that "toxic masculinity" saved Europe from the scourge of toxic Socialism

    I try to live each day to be a citizen worthy of the sacrifice of these men.
    Zimmy, Borrego, oldman11 and 9 others like this.
  3. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    One of my Grandpa's was a one legged 6 fingered man that rarely talked much about how he got to be that way. It was Grandma that told me when I was old enough to understand that it was D Day and that Grandpa like every other scared to to death BRAVE man that stormed those beaches were heroes, that overcame nearly impossible odds. Salutes Grandpa and All of the other Heroes that put the entire world ahead of themselves that day. The most grandpa ever said when asked was "I got shelled and then the Fr's Shot me in the hand while I was trying to drag a hamburger leg to cover. Anything else you want to know?"
    Zimmy, Dunerunner, oldman11 and 6 others like this.
  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    My two Uncles on mothers side were in the Europeon Theater, one was a Sargent First Class, the other was a Major in Logistics... Both served Honorably... My father tried to get into the Navy as a Financial Officer, but was rejected on Medical Grounds, so he worked thru the War as an FDIC Bank Inspector... That is the total .Mil experience in my family...
  5. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    CLEAR THAT MURDER HOLE! D-DAY, June 6th 1944!
    Those Words from "Saving Private Ryan" really moved me!

    Imagine being a young man, standing in one of those landing craft, shells and bullets landing all around as the boat is running up on the beach and that ramp dropping to suddenly expose you to the hell that awaits you!
    All of that was proceeded by the greatest Naval shelling and Army Air Force Bombardment the world had ever seen, and yet the Germans still effected a major defense that could have repelled the landings, Nothing short of Awe Inspiring!
    I couldn't imagine what that would have felt like, and to have survived those landings and then had to fight your way inland, nothing but madness! Just imagine all that and then ending up in the Arden during a nasty winter and facing off with the Germans in one of the nastiest battles ever! Our greatest generation fully earned that title for doing what they did, facing the challenges they did, and surviving it, or paying the ultimate price for freedom! NEVER FORGET!

    D-Day, June 6th 1944
    Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force:

    You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months.

    The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you.

    In company with our brave Allies and brothers-in-arms on other Fronts you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.

    Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped, and battle-hardened. He will fight savagely.

    But this is the year 1944. Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of 1940-41. The United Nations have inflicted upon the Germans great defeats, in open battle, man-to-man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our Home Fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men. The tide has turned. The free men of the world are marching together to victory.

    I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty, and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full victory.

    Good Luck! And let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.

    General Dwight D. Eisenhower, supreme allied commander.
  6. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    My Uncle Albert was in the Army at the end of the war in Europe. He served in Graves Registration, locating and recording the dead troops.
    Later he was called back in for Korea.
    He survived it all, married and had kids. Now he is blind and lost a foot. But he's still with us.
    Zimmy, Dunerunner, Yard Dart and 4 others like this.
  7. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    This quote from the 3rd to the last sentence , needs to be the narrative for every skirmish our military is pushed into .
    " We accept nothing less than full victory " ,, and let the military run the show , and not the dimwit politicians . Our cemeteries would not be as full as they are if this was left to the military strategists .
    My thoughts , prayers, condolences , and the utmost respect go out for these courageous men each and every day of my life . There is honestly not a day goes by that I don't think of what these men went through , gave , and sacrificed, for not only us , but for the world .
    I would love to take these whiny assed kids that are protesting daily against our country , I'd love to be able to load them up in one of those landing crafts and drop the gate on the shores of some muzziestan country and let them see what they are actually going to get if they are able to push this country in the direction they are hoping for .
  8. apache235

    apache235 Monkey+++

    Not a huge fan of the French, but my mother told me she was in France in the late 60's and got on a very crowded train, standing room only when an elderly (older than she) woman got up and said "Madam... " and pointed to her seat. Mother, said she couldn't think of taking her seat. The old woman said "You are American, no?" Mom replied yes she was and the French woman replied you Americans have saved my country twice, it is my honor" There are "greatest generations" in many countries.
    Zimmy, 3M-TA3, Dunerunner and 6 others like this.
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    There was one lady that remembered without rancor and a superiority complex.

  10. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey++

    If the British and French are grateful, remember that the Germans and Japanese still bear a grudge. Nobody is going the thank you for defeating them.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  11. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Do they? Both Germany and Japan repudiated militarism and rampant nationalism after WW2. Something that America might do well to remember...Dictatorships taking on the world usually ends badly for the dictator, the dictatorship, and the country that enabled the dictatorship to get established.

    As nations, both Germany and Japan were beneficiaries of post war reconstruction via the Marshal Plan, and their economies and political structures benefited from that largess of a sort, remembering that America was transitioning from a war to a peacetime economy, and there was considerable production overcapacity that was directed from guns to butter. Aid to both Germany and Japan was in America's best geopolitical interests in limiting the Soviet Unions ambitions, primarily in Europe, but also in northern Asia.

    French and British gratitude to America, is qualified by the fact that America entered (some might say, dragged, kicking and screaming) into both conflicts well after the commencement of both wars, in time to do a victory lap with those allied belligerents who were in the fight from the start.

    Individuals of Britain, France, Germany and Japan will no doubt have a range of views about America and Americans, just as individuals from America will have a variety of views about limeys, frogs, nips and krauts. Gratitude and grudges often fade with time...judging by the comments of some monkeys here, gratitude to the French as an ally against the British in the revolutionary war and the war of 1812 evaporated many decades ago.
    apache235 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  12. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    There were and are a great many brave French. In any group of people regardless of nationality, race, gender, etc.. there will be a mix of good and bad traits in people. The French have a reputation problem that really goes to back to a few incompetent Generals and bad political decisions. There has also been a sentiment of "You may have saved us, but we are still superior" that rubbed many people raw, especially those who lost close relatives. To a certain extent the superior French attitude was stoked by the "ugly Americans" that later visited Europe and expected gratitude everywhere they went. Imagine how you would feel if a friend did you a favor then kept rubbing your face in it.

    My only trip to Europe was a business trip to Scotland in the late 90's. There was a German vendor there as well, and I discovered in conersation that there was still animosity towards Germans, and that the French were still held in low regard as cowards. This by people and about people who were born long after the war had ended.

    We Americans have never lived in a land that was occupied by a hostile military force.

    The average French soldier was not a coward.
    The average US soldier was not a hero, neither was the average British, Canadian, Russian or Aussie soldier.
    The average German soldier was not a monster, neither was the average Japanese or Italian soldier.
    They all did what was needed to do to support their countries.
    Every damn one of them was scared every time they went into battle.
    Every damn one of them wanted the war to be over so they could go home.

    The evil and the cowardice came from politicians, government officials, and certain General Officers.
    The heroes were mostly men and women who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and somehow managed to fo the right thing. Some got medals and most of them didn't get recognician. The ones who survived didn't care if they got a medal or not and were just happy to eventually go back to their families.

    I am part Norwegian. Quisling did not make me a traitor or a coward. The French people were betrayed by their leaders who appeased Hitler and incompetent (and pompous) military leadership. Great Britain initially was the same - appeasement and incompetent military strategies. They got a second chance because they weren't occupied giving them time to straighten things out.

    A great many French people died. A great many risked their lives daily in the French Resistance. If you want WW2 heroes you can start by looking there. As I started above the majority of heroes were in the wrong place at the wrong time and somehow managed to make things work. The people of the French Resistance began every day making the choice of risking their lives or going with the flow and having relative safety.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Gator 45/70, chelloveck and apache235 like this.
  13. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey++

    The only reason that Germany and Japan repudiated militarism and nationalism after WW2 is that we gave them no choice. We only let them rearm in the 1950s and 1960s, we re-educated the entire population, and we have occupied them since 1945.
    The Marshal Plan and the Berlin Airlift (thanks to the Soviets) went a long way toward repairing relations between former enemies and even allies. Still it doesn't make up for the fact that we killed Grandpa.
    Remember that it wasn't our war. We didn't have a dog in that fight until December, 1941, we both Japan and Germany declared war upon the United States of America.
    Gator 45/70 and 3M-TA3 like this.
  14. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    I was a soldier in Europe in the 80s. My experience was as follows and statements are generalities.

    The French were rude but not hateful. Exchange rates were always pretty bad at local establishments compared to banks but that's everywhere.

    The Italians ranged from hate to rude resentment. But those cur bitches were bitter of being beaten and after getting hurt badly by a mongrel pack of the little bastards I learned to treat them like I was an occupier instead of an ally. I always took the time for one last kick for quality purposes. I would have nuked Italy and spared the Nevada coyotes from atomic testing. I might still would.

    Germans seemed to like us the most with little public or private animosity. It might have helped I spoke the Texas German dialect.

    Everyone else seemed pretty glad to see us and was as curious as we were about each other.
    Gator 45/70 and ghrit like this.
  15. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    In my military days I never got to visit Europe.
    I did see many Caribbean islands and Mombasa, Kenya (the First Illegal Alien's home town). My view on the denizens of all those countries is, they believe all Americans are rich, and ripe to be fleeced. Gotta be careful whenever dealing with them.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  16. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey++

    We have known occupation by hostile military forces...the Hawaiians, Mexicans, American Indians, and the Southern Confederates. All still have a deep burning hatred for the USA and wish that they could rewrite history. Do you really think that we maintain our cultures, languages, and history just to entertain the yankee tourists.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  17. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Please keep having all your kumbaya fantasies about how great life would be if the dreaded white man had never come. Do you really think Hawaii would have been left alone by Japan and today China? There is not a single habitated scrap of land on the planet that was not forcibly taken by someone else countless times, Including every square inch of Hawaii.

    Do a tiny bit of research about American Indians and you will find all kinds of territorial warfare, all of which was brutal. See how vanquished tribes and nations were dealt with. RE Mexicans you do realize that Mexico SOLD us large portions of our southern border (Gadsden purchase among others). Just because Mexicans (Spanish instead of English "occupiers") claimed the land doesn't mean it was their territory. If they disputed US Territory then why did they sell us land that would have separated them from land they claimed?

    I am not proud of every part of US History, but nobody's history is pure, not even the history of your ancestors, I'm assuming you are Hawaiian. Your occupation must be sheer horror, since you are free to live how you want, grow and prosper and even vote. It must be incredibly frustrating, especially when Hawaiians were forced at gunpoint to vote yes on Statehood.

    My point about Americans not having lived in occupation was to point out that we (none of us living) have not experienced the horrors of what the French and Polish (and others) endured in WW2 at the hands of the Germans or the Chinese (and others) at the hands of the Japanese. Here's a hint - nobody got to vote or speak their minds or deny their occupiers anything including their daughters.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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